cost-effective upgrade to m-Audio MobilePre ??
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Posted on Sep 16, 2008 09:51 pm
expatCanuck
Member Since: Sep 16, 2008
Greetings -
Newbie here.
I've got an old homegrown PC (Athlon XP 2700), Audacity, an SM-58, an SM-57 and an AT-2020. Just recording vocals, guitar & mando. Perhaps some keyboards. If I watch my room positioning, I can occasionally get a decent recording of my wretched performances, but there's more background hiss than I'd like (samples at www.oldWithoutMoney.com
)
I'd like to think that it's the M-Audio MobilePre that's the weak link here and, if folks agree, I'd welcome suggestions for new or used cost-effective upgrade for the mic preamp / DAC part of the chain.
2 channels ought to be plenty, and the AT2020 needs phantom power. I could see spending $500 if the end-of-year bonus is kind, but $200-$300 is more realistic. And, if it matters, I have a FireWire card in the PC.
Thanks kindly.
- Richard
P.S. - If folks don't agree that it's the preamp, what might be introducing the hiss?
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 17, 2008 07:22 pm It could be a cable or the mic. But if you have tried a couple of cables and both mic's do it then the mic is probably OK. Cables can go bad over time even if not used a lot.
If you have a way to test the mics and cables on a PA or something to see if there is any noise you can do that.
One way to test the Mobile Pre as well would be to simply record the channel's with nothing plugged in. IF you get the hiss then with normal levels set then it may well be the unit is going or gone bad.
One thing to remember as well is if the gain is being turned up too high on the mobile pre that as well can cause a hiss.
There are several alternatives out there that will do wonders. IF you do electric or electro acoustic or your mando has a pick up on it you might look into using a Line 6 Toneport UX-2. The unit is one that I use as well as a fully loaded PODxt and I love it. I probably get more use out of the UX-2 for its fantastic mic pre amp models then anything. They are models of some very high end gear and they sound simply remarkable when used properly.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 17, 2008 07:47 pm Oh ya, and I forgot. Welcome to HRc by the way.
I stopped by your site quickly and one tune caught my eye.Puppy is the spawn of Satan is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. Very well done and I have to say it had me and one of my sons rolling and laughing, while still getting the toe tapping as well.
When time permits I'll go have alisten to a couple more.
Is there any song in particular that the hiss stands out on more then the others? Let me know and I'll give that one a shot.
Sep 17, 2008 08:50 pm Thanks for the welcome, and your comments. You're too kind. But I *did* have fun writing that song.
Songs on which hiss is evident are the quieter ones -- the opening of Train's on Time or Harmony come to mind.
- Richard
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 17, 2008 10:30 pm Cool, I will have a listen tomorrow to those and see if I can hear anything that might be a clue to something else amiss in the system.
But indeed, that was a very fun song to listen to. I'll be shooting a link to your page to a few friends to get them to go take a listen as well.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 18, 2008 06:50 pm OK, one thing that I noticed now is that they are very low volume mp3's. Barely making -20dB on my desk with the volume control slider all the way up on your sites player.
Not sure if your files have been maximized or not. I don't recommend crushing them or slamming them with a limiter but would try and boost the level up to at least -10dB for the final product.
I am wondering if it may just be your gain staging is not set up properly and that is were you are getting the hiss from.
I'm not saying it isn't possibly the mobile pre that is causing it though as it very well could be.
Can you describe your exact signal chain and the level that each piece is set at, including any software level control's that might be being used?
Sep 19, 2008 09:53 am If I'm understanding correctly, I should boost the level in Audacity before I write the .mp3s?
(I'm assuming that I ought NOT to boost the gain on the mobilePre.)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Sep 19, 2008 12:06 pm Yeah, the Train's on Time is way quiet. I had to crank my PC speakers up to half way to hear it.
Before you write (or render) your mixdown, bring up the master so the peaks are coming up just under the 0db mark.
Mostly, you'd want nothing to go over, say -.5db or so. This is where a compressor / limiter would come into play, but that's a whole 'nother big explanation.
If you have to turn up your end system to hear the material, then you will also hear the hiss in the background. My system is fairly decent, but I can hear hiss if I turn stuff way up (without material playing). I just live with it, and silence any part that is showing through. It's very hard to hear when listening at normal levels, actually, mostly impossible to hear.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 19, 2008 06:17 pm Hey Richard.
As for the gain staging. You will want to have just enough gain turned up on the mobile pre to get the signal light going and not have it hit the red. If they have their control panel available to view while setting it use that so you can see it on the PC to insure you are not causing the hiss which could be the gain being too high.
Then in your recording software simply set its channel to see that you are hitting around -15dB or so when recording.
Then yes, on the master mixdown channel in your software make sure to have a good signal peaking around -10dB or higher. Many people go to about -3dB and that should do it. Then simply expor the mp3 and if it allows a maximizing you can use that to bring it to a suitable volume. It is normally automatic and requires you to do nothing fancy other then turning it on in the software when you export the mp3.
Sep 19, 2008 08:08 pm Many thanks for the detailed step by step -- you guys rock (or whatever genre floats yer boat).
- Richard
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 19, 2008 08:26 pm I hope it helps.
Favorite genre, Himalayan Throat Singing? :-)
Sep 21, 2008 05:23 pm Well, I recorded a couple of quick & dirty new song tracks as a test:
oldwithoutmoney.com/drSeuss.htm
oldwithoutmoney.com/tunes/road.mp3 (lyric sheet not up yet)
AT2020 at upper chest level slightly off-axis, guitar & face about 18" from the mic. Gain at 1 o'clock. Recording level kept under -12db (as shown in the upper right-hand corner in Audacity).
Tho' I'm not sure about the mastering mixdown ... don't know where the signal peaking is displayed -- same as recording?
In any event, it's certainly better.
Thanks again.
- Richard
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Sep 21, 2008 06:22 pm ha, that dr seuss is a riot. great stuff.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Sep 21, 2008 07:16 pm Ya, that is much better. I don't really hear much in the background now on these two at all and the level is better.
I'm not completely familiar with Audacity but I think your master channel outs should have the level meter dedicated to it and that would be what you would use to adjust the final output level of the mix.
I'm with pjk as well, Dr. Suess is great stuff as well. You really write some interesting humor laden things as well as the regular tunes. I really enjoy the giggle's I get listening to the humoris ones though.
Sep 21, 2008 07:26 pm Hey Richard,
I really enjoyed listening to the music on your homepage! Some great songs there! I'm an old folkie myself, and it seems we must have a lot of the same influences...
In terms of your sonic issues, I can be of little service there. I couldn't really hear what you were talking about, it all sounded good to me. Nevertheless, Noize knows exactly what you're talking about, so listen to him! And I can second his recommendation of the Toneport UX-2!
Welcome to HRC! Now It's back to your homepage to listen to some more music!
Jim
Sep 21, 2008 07:27 pm Oh yeah, and you're right, your sister is very talented!
