Monitor volume
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Posted on Jul 13, 2008 08:37 am
TheChazman71
Old Dog Needs New Tricks!!
Member Since: Jul 13, 2008
This is my first post so be gentle....I've been out of the Biz for several years (Wife and kids and a lot of overtime didn't leave much time for night work) but I recently was recruited by a Family member to mix for their Country Band. My problem is that the entire band wants to compete for monitor level and by the time it is said and done, I'm only using the mains to stabilize the sound coming from the monitors. This was @ an outdoor show and was a little easier to clean up but some of the upcoming shows are small bars and I think I am really going to have some problems. I've tried to explain the situation to no avail with the band so I am in need of input.
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 13, 2008 01:40 pm Welcome to HRC first off.
My first advice would be to simply give them all a good slap, but being as they are family that probably won't work.
One solution is to go with in ear monitoring. But that is not a cheap alternative compared to using floor monitor's.
Do they own their own gear, or do they use whatever is supplied? Rental is also an answer for the personal in ear monitoring as well.
I know Rob Stemple here is an FOH guy for bigger shows and I'm sure he might be able to toss some advice your way as well. Something more cost effective I suppose.
But in my day if we got out of control on stage with monitor levels and it turned into a fight, they would simply shut them all down and start from scratch. Stage managers in those days were not always nice guys.
Jul 13, 2008 01:56 pm What are the ages/experience levels of the band members, based on the little bit you've mentioned they sound like a bunch of 16 year old wanna be stars that really are not thinking about the sound overall...only their few minutes.
Most people (save the singer(s)) should be able to use their own amplification for monitoring if they need a little boost from themselves.
One trick I have learned that works on a few occassions is that many instruments (most predominately bass instruments) work better for the player if their amp is on the other side of the stage, as the sound takes a few feet to develop. I have seen some guys put all their amps on opposite sides, as THEY can then hear it better, if their amps are right on top of them, they won't...as that is how sound waves develop.
Just something to try...it depends on environment, speaker sizes and other such technicalities.
Oh, and welcome to HRC.
TheChazman71Old Dog Needs New Tricks!!Member
Since: Jul 13, 2008
Jul 13, 2008 11:52 pm Thanks for the welcome....The ages of these guys range from the thirties to the fifties, but yes we have a couple of "wish they have beens" They own the board (a Yamaha EMX 5014c that is not enough for their instruments, I am sub-mixing on a POS first run effects mixer from Behringer to 2 !5" Yamaha mains, but get this running a peavy 260w amp to 4 Monitors. The lead singer told me that they would just put the mixer on stage and he would run the board, and at the last show i told him he was more than welcome to do it again! Good advise with the amp positioning, makes good sense although I doubt that I can convince them to do it. I was more or less venting but I really appreciate you guys getting back to me so fast. Oh and by the way I would bring everything on the monitors down after every set( which I do anyway so that their ears can adjust) and the singer was actually yelling my name over the PA even if we were making eye contact, what a dip.
TheChazman71Old Dog Needs New Tricks!!Member
Since: Jul 13, 2008
Jul 14, 2008 12:05 am I'm not bashing Behringer, As a matter of fact I was considering the PMP5000 for my own start-up rig. It's this particular unit that has been abused severely for about 3 or four years. It is not even racked and it has been thrown around a bit. I adjust the effects with a small flat head!!! If anyone has used the PMP5000, I would surely like to know what they think of it.
Jul 14, 2008 02:38 pm Hey Cahzman71. Got the old volume wars going I see.
Fun huh?
It sounds for your post that you have four monitors with only 1 amp to run them.
So, 2 mixes with 4 wedges.... Not easy.
If you can find one more amp. To try and give everyone an individual mix may help.
At least then they may not want to compete so much. But, yes, that entails another EQ, more cable, and two more Aux sends on the board.
I am not familiar with the board that you are running.
If that is not a possibility, then you are going to have the fun task of training them on how to play together without so much monitors.
Run the FOH a little hotter, See if the band hearing the FOH mix a little more. Maybe then they will allow for a lower monitor mix.
Having a band member sit out in the house for sound check could be a way of letting them see for themselves how much FOH suffers by their monitor mix being so loud.
If all of this fails, then what Noize suggested is your only hope. In-ears are great. But can be a little pricier for a whole band.
You still will need an Aux send for each In-ear mix. No way you can share an In-ear mix at that point.
Sorry, I know this is information that you already know. I wish that there was a trick that you could use that would help. But, if there is, I have yet to find it.
I just got off of the WXPN Fest for this year. And even with the national acts that we had, we still have the same problem that you have.
Thank God it was a festival. That way we were able to get them to bend some our way.
TheChazman71Old Dog Needs New Tricks!!Member
Since: Jul 13, 2008
Jul 15, 2008 01:52 am Thank for that, I think the solution(without buying more stuff right this minute) is to stop my b*tching and sit the Band down and have a pow wow. I am looking at several options on mixers, definitely something with more than 2 AUX sends. You guys are great.
fren hie29http://www.mpaudiovisual.comMember
Since: Jul 13, 2007
Jul 20, 2008 11:42 pm the more mixes you have the easier it is I usually have 3 mixes at the front and L-R side fills and sometimes a drum mix behind the drumer. For front mix I use Meyer's UM-1P for fills CQ1's. A lot of it is psychological. Rub the knobs look at the guy on stage and give him the nudge that is being brought up and everybody else has been brought down and do it to the next guy. We did a 3 day Bangladesh festival and I was doing monitor In one act they got a female singer from the audience and kept going up with the second vocal in the singer's monitor so he can have a good balance of him and her, but the think is that the signer had no dynamic in her voice so I got tired of the stage manager to come and ask me to have more of her in his so I took a 5 minute break and the other monitor guy took over, who do I see running across the stage? The stage manager shaking my friend's hand saying it was the best balance he's heard EVER... well we were all tired and I totally forgot to tell my buddy that the female vocal was on wireless 6 instead of 5 since I couldn't find #5 the lead was on 4 so in theory she was supposed to be on 5 but 5 was open and lost somewhere backstage so my friend was tweaking wireless #5 (wrong mic) all this time and #6 got untouched since I left the console. All that to say is most of the time it's all psychological.
TheChazman71Old Dog Needs New Tricks!!Member
Since: Jul 13, 2008
Jul 24, 2008 09:57 pm That's a great story and I have to admit that I give the "signs" alot when there is not much more that i can do. Aren't people a trip?
