when played on radio, my tracks sound quiet!
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Posted on Apr 04, 2008 08:43 am
skeg0
www.dorian-music.co.uk
Member Since: Apr 04, 2008
Hi everyone,
Im new to this forum but from reading a few posts i think i could find this place very useful!
My problem is that when my tracks are played on the radio, they sound quieter than other commercial tracks they play. I was wondering if this could be a result of my tracks clipping too much at the mixing stage? (in order to get volume up in nuendo, I quite often end up pumping up the fader volume for individual tracks which generates slight clipping - making the master output clip as well - then I use nuendo's VST Dynamics plugin to add compression/limiting etc to the whole mix.
When the tracks get played on the radio, is it possible that the compressors they use at the radio stations see that it is clipping and so reduce the volume to below that of normal tracks?
As when I play my tracks at home they sound fine.
Here is my process..
What i normally do is do all recording, mixing and mastering in nuendo.. I add compression where required to individual tracks like the bass and guitars and then put on the VST dynamics plugin to the master output for limiting/compression etc on the whole thing and call it a day by outputting a wav or mp3 file.
I have recently acquired ozone and put some tracks through it and they sounded pretty good.. should I refrain from using the VST dynamics plugin and go straight from a basic mix to ozone?
Sorry about all these questions, im a bit of a novice when it comes to mastering - from reading other posts i am starting to get the impression my mastering hasn't been given nearly enough attention!
Thanks
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WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 04, 2008 09:07 am It sounds like your compression on individual tracks is done correctly. You want no clipping in the mix. Use compression on individual tracks or group tracks to control the amount of variance in volume of the sounds recorded and prevent clipping.
Without any compressor in master perform a mixdown to a .wav file, creating a single stereo file of the song. Now import that mixed down song into your prog and use only the mastering section for plugs. Here is where you can use Ozone to pump up the volume. It will not create clipping. It will increase the density of the file therby making it louder.
Now comes loudness wars. You'll hear a lot of that here and elswere in reference to production music. Depending on the genre of the station you may have to "Pump up" your piece quite a bit, even at the expense of lose of dymanics and increased distortion.
In Nuendo, there must be a loudness anylizer. This nifty little algorithm will give you the relitive average loudness of a waveform or song if you will. Snag a couple of songs that are often played on the station and see how loud they are mastered. That will tell you how loud you need to make your piece to "keep up with the joneses".
There are other things you can do as well, like making the mix a little "mid heavy" to increase the precieved volume, but start with understanding the volumes you need to achieve during the mastering process.
Apr 04, 2008 07:35 pm Like Walt said, compressing the individual tracks is the best way to go and to start. But, the compressor in Nuendo sucks. I know. I used it.
I also use Ozone. It's a good little tool to jack up the volume. Mix everything so you can hear it. JUST so you hear it. Even if it's pretty quiet. Get a good mix. Then, use Ozone to boost it. Let nothing clip. Clipping is like a... I can't think of an analogy, but it's bad. :)
Edit: OH! And welcome. You'll find friends and enemies here. But, mostly friends. :)
skeg0www.dorian-music.co.ukMember
Since: Apr 04, 2008
Apr 05, 2008 11:00 am Thanks a lot guys for your help thats put me a few steps closer!
Cynic - you mentioned that you use ozone... does it work to compress individual tracks with ozone - e.g. vocals/bass etc, and then to still use a compression on the whole thing when mastering?
Reason I ask is that when i record bass (or vocals actually) I find it very hard to get a good sound and have to compress it a lot... my bass always seems to be quieter than other commercially recorded bass. Am trying some plugins such as Baxxpander but without success.. can you recommend any bass compressors? or do you get good enough results with ozone?
Cheers agian for all your help!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 05, 2008 11:39 am er, i think ozone is better used on a 'mixed down' or rendered stereo wave file.
Mix the tracks to taste first, getting the levels to live nice, but don't be so concerned about overall volume.
Once everything is coherent, and plays nice together, render the project down to stereo wave file.
Then open the stereo track in a new project, and utilize ozone. Or is ozone a standalone? i can't remember. Anyway, don't worry about total volume until you've gotten the mix right.
I often compress a track, then put a compressor (or multi-band) on the master during (pre)mastering.
Reaper has released some right-dandy compressors, EQ and other stuff that can be used in other programs. They are VST.
www.reaper.fm/reaplugs
ReaComp is very nice and clear for each track.
ReaXComp is very nice on the master mix, to boost up parts of the stereo file.
With ReaXComp, you can boost up a certain range, to make it jump out more during the (pre)mastering phase. Do be careful though, mastering shouldn't fix things, only lightly tweak and polish. Fixes should be done in the mix. ymmv, imho, etc.
ReaEQ is nice as well.
Welcome aboard, Skeg0.
Apr 05, 2008 02:42 pm No. Don't use it for individual tracks. I tried it for a bit and it just seemed to be counter productive.
Also, have you figured out how to use it as a "matching" eq? You can pick a song that you want to mimmick and use it's general eq image. That helped me some.
Apr 05, 2008 09:42 pm Adding compression to individual tracks is probably the best option and turn the master volume down a bit.
skeg0www.dorian-music.co.ukMember
Since: Apr 04, 2008
Apr 06, 2008 09:24 am Thanks for all the replies guys, thats really helped me out a lot.
I now think I have a process - nuendo to mix - now i know i can get away with a really quiet mix, then ozone to boost it and match it to a song i like, and then finally harbal for touch ups. Seems to work like a treat!
Thanks again guys, you are all ace
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 06, 2008 09:59 pm The volume maximizing compresser in Ozone works in a slightly different manner than a simple compressor. It is hard for me to explain with writing volumes, but a simple compressor. one that you would put on a single track is designed to take very loud segments and make them quieter, giving an overall even volume to a track. A maximizing compresor is all about making everything loud.
jetgloMember
Since: Jul 23, 2004
May 22, 2008 06:11 pm Yeah I know this is pedantic and slightly off-topic.. but
<<CynicEidolon says> Let nothing clip. Clipping is like a... I can't think of an analogy, but it's bad>
Here's a great analogy for clipping..
hold the end of a ruler flat against a table with some hanging off the edge.. pull the loose end up and let it go.. flippittyflippityflippity. The extreme ends of the ruler's wave are being clipped by the table.
