Setting MX9000 levels - Plz Help!!!
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Posted on Feb 06, 2008 09:41 am
Molasar
Member Since: Aug 17, 2007
Gentlemen,
I know this has been (somewhat) addressed within some other threads, but I still cannot get my levels right; that is why I opened this thread.
This is the scenario:
Behringer MX9000 mixer, Akai DR8 HDD recorder getting input from the subs out. DR8's internal mixed down output at the External Input jacks. All main section switches disengaged. I have even tried totally disconnecting the DR8 without any luck.
MX9000's Direct Out and Mix B Input/Tape Return not used (so I can't have any strange signal summing here).
All MX9000 channel routing switches are not engaged. All channels muted, faders all the way down.
I have a CD player connected to channels 15 & 16. I want to set the levels for these two channels (as a true example).
Channel 16 is muted also.
Channel 15 has it's S26 (PFL) switch engaged. Fader at unity. Panned hard left.
Main section S95 (PFL) switch up. L95 light is on.
All buss routing is disengaged.
Here's the trouble. Main section VU meters are +7dB higher than channel 15 VU meter. If the channel is panned centered, then the main VU meters are +4dB higher. If I push the channel fader up to compensate, I have to get it to +4dB or +7dB to match.
If I hit the Main section S95 (PFL) switch, then only the appropiate main VU meter rises (e.g.: if channel 15 is hard panned left, then only main VU meter left has activity).
No matter what I do, hard channel pan gets +7dB on the main VU meters, and channel center pan gets +4dB on the main VU meters.
Either I'm plain stupid or this mixer has something wrong. Can someone please explain step by step what situation needs to be reproduced (i.e.: channel & main section switches engaged/disengaged, fader levels, pan, gain, reading from meters at any given moment, etc., etc.) in order to get same readings from channel VU meter and main VU meter(s)?
I would be eternally grateful... cuz I'm about to torch this (otherwise wonderful) mixer.
No matter what forums and threads I have read, and no matter how closely I follow the MX9000 manual (I also downloaded the 8/24 Mackie manual and tried it), I simply cannot get same VU meter readings.
Help!!!!
Any input will be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks!
Mike
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 07, 2008 05:12 pm Well I start out with I'm not an MX900 user. Walt who uses one should hopefully see this and may enlighten you a bit more.
But I can tell you that the channel and mains will not always match perfectly. You have to take into account the signal is being routed through different stages and can pick up gain along the way.
However seeing that you have everything muted and are only setting one single channel it should possibly be a little closer then that.
PFL, or pre fader listen is actually only used to set the input gain for each channel, not for calibrating the meters.
With the PFL engaged you will then set your channel input gain so that the main output meters hit unity or very close to it. Then do the same for channel 16 as well. Remember to have the channel fader at unity when doing this. But it actually bypassed the channel fader when you use PFL so that is not an absolute must.
When channels are summed together to hit the main they will always gain a bit on the meters. You do need to dis engage the PFL button to see what is actually going on though with the channel and the main meters.
Another thing to remember is that the CD player is consumer level gear which has an output of -10dB as opposed to pro level gear which will have an output rated at +4dBu. So that as well may be playing a part in what you are seeing.
Have you tried any other input sources such as a synth or the like?
Feb 07, 2008 05:59 pm Yes, I have tried the same technique with a studio condenser mike and get the same results.
Channel PFL engaged, all other channels muted. The channel fader does not seem to affect the main VU meters. But if I set the channel fader at unity, it will be approx. 4dB lower. If I hard pan the channel, it will be about 7dB lower.
I am aware channel and main VU meters may not exactly match, but I think a 4~7dB difference is not good!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 07, 2008 07:45 pm Did you read the part were I stated for normal operation you need to dis-engage the PFL button? The PFL is only for setting the input channel gain and not for normal operation. Or listening to the Pre Fader sound for auditioning purposes only. And that will have an effect on what you see in the meters.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 07, 2008 09:14 pm Hi Molisar,
Excuse me for one sec....Noise, I saw the post this morning a although I am sure it is an accurate description of what is set and happening, it reads like the story problem from hell.
I'm back. I really did not want to tackle this problem as I am old now and more than two things to consider at once is becoming a problem. But.... With the board normalized, (all switches, pots, sliders, etc. in detent / off / "normal" position, I can take a single channel input, route it to the main outs via main mix button on the channel strip, press the main mix button in the monitor section, set my main mix to unity as well as the channel strip slider and the channel's meter and the main output meters will follow each other very well..... pfl or no pfl on the channel strip.
Soooo..... I don no. Two things I can think of off hand.
1. Check the four operating mode switches for the four banks of 8 channels to ensure they are at +4 db operating range. Check the sub outs to ensure they are set for +4 operating range.
2. Two track in, and external in are streight through to the meters. There is no adjusting the amplitude presented to the meters beyond adjustements at the equipment sending the signal.
Man I hope this helps. I really would be hard pressed to offer anything more without having my hands on the unit.
Feb 08, 2008 08:47 am Hi Walt,
Noize, yes, I do disengage the PFL switch during normal operation, but just as Walt says, no matter what the position of the PFL switch (and only one channel used), the channel meter will not follow the main meter(s).
I will check the operating level switches of the entire console tomorrow and get back to you guys later.
I hope this works. This is driving me crazy!
Thanks!
Mike
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 10, 2008 12:56 pm Molasar, I figured you were but had to ask to eliminate.
Walt, thanx for jumping in. Having not used that desk I wasn't sure on the meter cal. for it.
Feb 11, 2008 08:56 am Back,
Ok, all the desk is at +4dB where available. Sub and Main meters follow each other very closely; it's the channel meter which is ~ 4dB/7dB lower... or are the sub and main meters higher?
Any thoughts welcome...
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 11, 2008 06:21 pm The only time the subs and mains should be higher is when they are summing a signal. When only one signal is being presented to the board the individual track strip meter should match the others. You may have gremlins!
Feb 12, 2008 09:11 am Gremlins!!??
Quick, where's the shotgun??
I'll take care of those today; see what happens...
Seriously, I'll unplug the whole board and only leave one single mic, nothing more... if the levels don't match each other then I'll assume my board has a bug (or were those gremlins?)
Feb 12, 2008 09:12 am It's always gremlins, Noize2u uses Pikachu to ward off the gremlins...seriously, and it works too.
Feb 27, 2008 09:50 am Ermm...
Will an EQ on Main Inserts affect Main levels?
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 27, 2008 06:42 pm Can't say for sure, I've never tried it. I should think it would be nice if it did. Eq changes the volume and I would like to know exactly what I am putting out to the next device in the chain.
Feb 27, 2008 10:18 pm Owners Manual.
Page 7, section 2.2
A full explanation.
Feb 28, 2008 09:01 am Thanks Kaimyra...
Reading that section, I came across this (talking about the main meters):
"In SOLO/PFL mode a 0 dB meter reading matches an internal operating level of 0 dB (0.775 V). However, when looking at the mix, 0 dB is referenced to +4 dBu, the 2-track operating level. I.e. if only ONE signal is present in the main mix bus, SOLOing that signal will cause the meter reading to increase by +4 dB."
Can this explain somehow the behaviour of my main meters???
