Tempo Problem in Sonar 6
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Posted on Nov 04, 2007 09:36 pm
theskrub
If I were any cooler I'd freeze.
Member Since: Nov 08, 2004
I exported a wav from pro tools into sonar. The track has an abrupt tempo change from 60 to 175bpm and then switches bewtween 82.5 and 175 twice until the end. I put the tempo changes into sonar in the right places. The track plays along with the click until the first change to 175. After the change the click is about a 16th note ahead for the rest of the track. Any ideas as to why this is and how to fix it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 05, 2007 03:33 pm It sounds as if the track is not aligned perfectly as you would assume. PT may have exported it with a bit of difference.
If the click is constant at the 16th note ahead of were it should be then I would suggest simply moving the tempo change reference by that much to compensate for it.
I know I have run into that problem as well moving files back and forth on rare occasion from one DAW to another. It is usually the fault of the exporting DAW adding a few milliseconds of silence at the beginning of the exported track.
Odds are good though that the audio track wav may not be exactly following a certain tempo as well. So either way, moving the tempo change marker ahead by that 16th note should take care of the problem.
theskrubIf I were any cooler I'd freeze.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Nov 05, 2007 08:14 pm Unfortunately it isn't exactly a 16th ahead so I can't find the exact positioning for the tempo change. I don't believe silence before the track started is the problem because the track is syncing perfectly fine for the first 6 measures at 60bpm. Is it possible that it is Sonar's fault? How can i alleviate this problem, i can't proceed working on it until I fix this. Thanks
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 05, 2007 08:29 pm I really doubt it is a Sonar problem. If the beat is off an exact amount throughout the changed part it might be that the tempo is not exactly at the 175 or 82.5 mark on the wav file you imported. I guess mys suggestion is to try tiny adjustments to the tempo.
You can also use the function in Sonar to find a steady tempo in the wav file as well. That way you can target and exact spot and have it try to find the steady rhythm.
triproloPslam 34:8Member
Since: Dec 04, 2004
Nov 05, 2007 09:02 pm I don't know about Sonar. I use acid and It has what it calls a "beatmapper" and I have to turn it off. If I don't then it will set the new track I am importing to the beat of the existing work. It really doesn't work very well.
Does Sonar have anything like that?
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Nov 05, 2007 09:07 pm Exporting audio from pro tools to another DAW? PT has a mind of its own. I've tried it before and never got the result I crossed my fingers for.
Are you doing consolidate- bounce, or consolidate- export? I think PT can sense when other DAWs are going to play with its kool-aid. If you're using a Mac, try playing the bounced track with the preview option in the file browser and see if the problem's still there. If it's not, then you can finger Sonar.
If it is, try removing any markers you have on the track before consolidating, I've found that fixes some glitches associated with PT exporting. Another issue could be that the odd time signature (decimal- 82.5) isn't playing well during export and PT is compensating and in turn leaving a gap. PT has done much stranger things than that, lol.
As a rule of thumb, I try not to use decimal time signatures with PT, it just throws it all out of whack. Lemmie know when you fix it, and how you did; I'd like to know myself in case I come across this problem in the future.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 05, 2007 09:23 pm Ya, I neglected to mention that part. Keith is spot on. PT does not export very well to a straight up wav file. You need to remove all the markers and such before exporting or it will through it off. That I can tell you from first hand experience.
All it takes is one tiny little bit of off and the file will be tuff to import into any DAW. When I run an export out of PT I always make a second coy and turn all the markers and crap off. It just makes it simpler to drag a wav out that way.
And don't always trust that the tempo is exact either, because no matter how good the musicians are, they can drift.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Nov 05, 2007 10:05 pm triprolo, to answer your question, no. Sonar doesn't have anything like beat mapper that I know of. I used to use Acid and I hated the beat mapper; probably comes in handy for techno re-mixes, that's about it.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 05, 2007 10:08 pm When I get a chance I will look at what it does use for this. It is a converter that will find a constant beat and give you a tempo. It is used to map audio beats to a midi note. Or I should say convert it.
theskrubIf I were any cooler I'd freeze.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Nov 06, 2007 10:42 pm thanks for the assistance yall.
i think you're right that protools exported it with a millisecond gap as i realized it actually was'nt synced at 60bpm. i turned it up loud and heard the original click track bleed through, clearly clashing with the other click. I then tried re exporting it from protools at 165bpm instead of 82.5 yet still no luck. What is my best bet on shifting all of my audio to get it perfectly aligned on the beats besides just using my ears?
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Nov 06, 2007 10:52 pm Not sure really; I'm new to Sonars abilities. What I would do, unless someone has a better option, in which case I'd love to know it, is export the different tempo sections separately and put em back together with Sonar? I'm stuck on this one.
Did you try removing the markers and consolidating the bounce?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 07, 2007 03:57 pm Does the PT rig your exporting from have the option to export an OMF file. That might work as well. Then you can simply import the OMF back into Sonar and it might line up better.
Otherwise, you are kind of stuck if the project is actually off just that bit either from export out of PT or just pain off the click track from the actual recording itself.
Your only solution then will be to cut it up as Keith suggested and align everything by ear or by sight. I have that happen frequently when I get projects sent to me in wav files. They are not careful when they are recording and sometimes don't even use a click track. So having to re align a part that is drifting is the norm around here.
