Looking for Recording/ Mix Critique
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Posted on Jan 21, 2003 07:01 pm
bmeador
Member Since: Nov 03, 2002
I'm an amateur acoustic musician working on a demo album of original music. "Demo for what?" you might ask? I don't really have a goal here, I just want to complete as high a quality album of my music as possible to share with friends and maybe sell for cheap at a weekly gig I'm playing right now.
So, I have posted my first mix of the first cut ("I Can't Feel Love" - sometimes you just have to say it) here:
www.dreamcatcherranch.net/music/mp3/WIP
Overall, I'm pretty happy with the song and the arrangement, but I think I've got some serious problems in my final mix. Can you give me advice on how to improve? See my profile to see the gear I'm working with. The whole thing sounds a little muddy and maybe too soft throughout most of the song, though it may not be volume but rather the mix and eq that's causing this effect?
FYI - I applied some slight compression to the vocals, then applied the RNC to the overall mix during mix down. I may have taken some of the life out of it there, but I'm not sure that's my problem.
Any advice is welcome, short of become a better guitar player or buy a $10,000 mic, since neither of those things are going to happen in the near future.
Thanks!
Brad.
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katmanMember
Since: Jan 22, 2003
Jan 22, 2003 12:50 am I'm downloading some things right at the moment, so listening to it is out of the question, but I know from experince, if you are using cakewalk sonar, you have to go more treble to start with, because when you mixdown to wav it gets muddy. Try using a less basey and more clean mix than you're used to, mix down to wav (or MP3) and see if that solves the problem. I'll listen to it tomorrow and then come back with hopefully some better advise. (After I look at what gear you have and all.)
tonyd1970The fat one always watches us.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002
Jan 22, 2003 06:46 am This is kinda hard to explain but, the 3 parts dont seem to blend in, its like 3 seperate entities. I'd say, bring up the ryth track, mash back the lead track and maybe leave the vocal where it is. Then put light reverb on that mixed group and see if they sound like there coming from the same place. Now, understand im fairly new to this also, so take with grains of salt. but thats my 2 cents on the mix.
(when you say "i cant feel love anymore" all i heard in my head was "Knockin on heavens door")
its close to the same timing and chord structure.
thats my 3rd cent. over all i give it a solid "B".
i havent heard anything else youve done so i cant do any comparing.
keep on rocking, and mixing, and mastering and fiddling with those knobs.
glynbMember
Since: Dec 16, 2002
Jan 22, 2003 10:47 am Ok, I've had a listen to your track.
Personaly I didn't get 'Knocking On Heaven's Door' at all, your melody is quite different. I wouldn't worry if people ever say your songs sound like 'x' or 'y', 100% originality is impossible to achieve. All 'new' songs I hear sound a bit like something else. If you start worrying about making your songs 'unique' then you'll never put anything out!
Anyway, down to the constructive criticism....
The voice is good, has quality and can hold a tune, pleasing to hear. I think it would benefit from a touch of reverb, don't overdo it though, no need to hide that voice, just enhance it.
The lead guitar as someone else said is way too high in the mix. It fights the voice for prominence and wins, it shouldn't. Some of the guitar licks overlapped with the voice, maybe they should be fitted into the gaps where the voice isn't singing - so it answers the voice rather than fighting it? Or save the lead guitar until the voice stops at the end of a verse?
I like the rhythm guitar and the rhythm of the song overall - nothing wrong there.
The 'bass' was a bit unclear, but occasional notes did sound out of tune - could be just an effect of the reverb you used?
The pattern of the song is the same throughout, (maybe that's what the other guy meant by alluding to the Heaven's Door thing - same chord patern repeated endlessly) -nothing wrong if that's your artisitic judgement to do that. However, i think if you do that you need to inroduce things into the arrangement to make it interesting as the listenenr goes along. So after a while introduce some percussion, or maybe strings, or some backing harmonies, just something to keep up interest. I know that's difficult if you're recording on a 4 track and all tracks are full! Currently at the 2 minute mark the listener has heard it all, there's nothing new to come.
If it was my song I'd think about introducing a new section with a differnet chord pattern, maybe just 4 bars with that lead guitar. It's an artistic judgement you must make.
BTW - I'm only new to all this home recording thing too and no expert, though I've been playing music for a good while. I enjoyed 'reviewing' your song, thanks for being brave!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 22, 2003 09:45 pm I have never had a problem when mixing down to wav with Sonar. You do need to make sure you bring all your track level's down a bit before mixing to a stereo pair though. As if you don't you will get some hidious digital distortion. Then after you have the stereo mix, you can master and normalize it for maximum volume. When I mix down to stereo form multiple track's, I always end up with just what I started with. Make sure you are not applying any effect's during mix down, as you will not know what they are doing till it's done, and then it is to late.
Jan 23, 2003 01:52 am Thanks for the critique/advice. I have re-mixed & re-posted the song. I think it sounds a lot crisper. I was using this big boomy reverb on the original mix, which I think muddied the sound a good bit. I changed that and I brought out the highs on the acoustic guitar. I also played with the levels throughout the song (i'm now wishing I has a DAW...) to try and avoid walking over the vocals with the electric guitar. I think the result is a lot crisper, though I need to listen to it a few more times on different stereos before I bless it.
I still think that overall the production sounds a little amateurish, and I can't figure out why. I think I have the equipment here to make the production sound like a legitimate store bought CD, but somewhere along the line I'm missing something. If someone here could say, well you forgot to turn the "make mix sound professional" switch on, that would be great!
An FYI - I did not notice any difference in the sound when I mixed to a wave file in Cakewalk. It's Cakewalk Guitar Tracks, BTW, not Sonar, which could make a difference.
To TonyD1970, I assume you're talking about Dylan's version of "knocking on heaven's door?" I told my roommate about the comparison and he started cranking GnR - I don't see it there.
To glynb, the bass does sound pretty bad, I think. You should hear it isolated. I have this old global electric bass I've been carrying around since high school (that's 15 years for me) but it's never worked. This past weekend I pulled it apart, soldered in a new capacitor from radio shack, and voila! I've got a working bass. However, I could only get one pickup working and while I was tuning it I broke the E string and tuner. So, what you hear on the recording is a three string piece of crap electric bass with strings that are 15 years (or more) old. I was so excited about finsihing the song that I went ahead and recorded as is. Anyway, I'm going to try new strings and if that doesn't sound better, I'm going to use my upright acoustic bass, though I really think the electric is the sound I want here. I was, BTW, running it through the Fender Bassman Amp simulation on my POD XT.
OK, too much information here. Anyway, thanks again for the advice.
tonyd1970The fat one always watches us.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002
Jan 23, 2003 08:10 am I didnt mean it as a snub or anything, its just what it reminded me of. cant help when you fall in love, cant help if a song reminds you of another song........... its just a ears to brain thing......
just listened, much much better. i think the lead (when theres no vocals) still shoots out from the mix too much, but at that point its sorta a personal prefrence thing.
good work!
Jan 23, 2003 11:33 am No snub taken. Thanks again for the feedback.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 23, 2003 09:25 pm Guitar Tracks should export the same as Sonar. I would guess it was the reverb then, to much will create that muddy sound for sure. some of the reverb plug's have an EQ built in, and they can really wreak havoc on digital audio if they are not set right. I will try to catch our track's sometime this weekend and give them a listen.
Untill then Peace and enjoy the music.
Noize 2 U
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
Jan 24, 2003 04:43 am FOr what its worth, I really like the sound of the acoustic, and the electric guitar sounds very similar to something from Chris Isaak. (That si a compliment). I like the way that it is very spacey, meaning lots of room reverb, and it has just a touch of grit to it. There is a section when the vocals are silent and its a little guitar solo, sounds a little too present, might back it off just a bit. Overrides the guitar.
Ok, the real thing that jumps out at me is the vocals. To me, they just don't seem to sit well in the mix. I guess with the really wet guitar and the small room sounding acoustic, the vocals just seem to "there" compared to everything else. Maybe a little more reverb, or just a subtle delay with a long decay but very little presence? Just something to give it some depth. Also, I would knock down the upper eq a little. Your voice, I assume it is yours, sounds a little sharp, while the other instruments are very mellow. Makes the vox stick out more from them.
Mixing is the hardest part, and I am in no way saying that I could do it better. But those are things that my ears hear. I hope you gain something usefull from what I said. Overall I like the song, and I don't get the "knockin' on heavens door" either. But, like they said, there really is nothing completely original. We'd have to grow up on some deserted island and never hear music to come up with something totally new.
Sharc
ps-Been awhile since I've been here, hello all.
Jan 24, 2003 05:39 am MSHARC? Is that really you or just a clever imposter? Welcome back, you crossed my mind a coupel days ago wondering what the heck happened to ya :-)
Jan 24, 2003 12:00 pm You caught me, MSHARC. I'm a HUGE Chris Isaak fan, particularly his earlier stuff. In fact, it was a Chris Isaak concert that inspired me to take up guitar. You can definitely hear the influence on a lot of my music. So, I definitely consider that a compliment. Thanks!
Also, thanks for the advice. I'm going to re-record the bass (I've got new strings) and play around with the mix over the weekend.
Brad.
MSHARCMember
Since: Apr 05, 2002
Jan 27, 2003 11:17 pm Hey dB, it really is me. I know I have been gone for quite some time, but I have been really busy. Moved to a new place and didn't have internet at all for awhile and then things have just been swamped. BUT, I am no longer playing in a band that I was in, so I am trying to get back into recording my originals and getting better at mixing them. The whole mastering thing is still too elusive at this point. Gotta learn more about the toys I have in SONAR as well. Some cool stuff I am sure if I take the time to learn it.
Also, the site looks great. I like how there is more music to listen to and see what others are doing. Gives me something to strive for on some and a benchmark on others. I'm going to try to be a little more active, but we'll see how that works out. :) Later.
Sharc
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 28, 2003 05:30 pm Nice to hear from ya MSharc
