Help me convince my band of this minimalist studio setup
Home > Home Recording Forum > Recording Techniques > Help me convince my band of this minimalist studio setup
Posted on Apr 09, 2007 04:03 am
crux
Typo Szar
Member Since: Jul 04, 2002
So after the great hurdle of convincing my band to record our album at home i now have to convince them of the equipment we will purchase to do so.
We've done some recordings with the equipment we already have for alittle over a year now so i know its capabilities and results quite well and combined with reading and study from these boards i think ive found a way to not break the bank and still get everything we need.
Equipment we currently have is a M-Audio Delta 66 which we use an Alesis analog mixer to go into. There is also my behringer B-2 LDC. We have drums and amps and an ok recording space.
Anyhow, im thinking after recordings and such that all we really need now is another B-2 LDC that will serve as an OH for the drums, an SM57 for all dynamic purposes and a Beta-52 for bass and bass drum. I am planning to use the recorderman method to do drums, which weve tried with very crappy samson mics and the results were stellar for me. So i think now we can just put the two behringers over head, sm57 on teh snare, beta in the bd and were set for drums. The LDC will also be for vocals and some room stuff for guitars and bass.
Then i think we need a tube preamp for vocals and anything we might want to warm up and give gain to and a compressor. Im not sure whether to just get a preamp/comp or seperate units. Then finally a decent pair of monitors.
I think these will fill in our quality gaps and we can really focus our finances onto these items so we can get top of the line stuff, instead of getting a ton of things like headphone amps, drum mic kit, outboard gear that is sub par.
Do you think this is enough to get a decent sounding album, ofcourse we will get it pro mastered, but this equipment is to get it all on tape and mixed. Also any suggestions for the mentioned equipment is welcome
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CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Apr 09, 2007 01:15 pm I see no reason at all why this wouldn't put out a decent album, nothing pro sounding probably but if you can hear all instruments and have no major frequency conflicts going then this should get what you want, which is probably an album/demo that will portray your sound faithfully and help to build a fanbase.
What kind of music, I'm leary of say doing metal without some close mic on the toms, but; for many musical types OH's+Snare+Kick can sound fantastic.
Apr 09, 2007 01:20 pm I've recorded some decent takes with less...ultimately, why would your band not be willing to at least try...
Apr 09, 2007 05:39 pm Personally, I think the AkG D112 is more suitable for double duty bass/kick drum. I think the Beta has the edge on kick, but the D112 is so much better on bass cabs, while still pretty good on kick, I'd prefer it if I had to pick one.
Just my opinion, of course.
Tim NUh, at least one more time . . .Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007
Apr 09, 2007 10:45 pm Yeah, everything will be fine, you just have
to talk everyone into it . . . I'm assuming you're
the tech person in the group, and though decisions
will be made by all, you get the final say. In other words, are you the producer?
Our band is doing what you are doing. After
three years of false starts, waiting for the
technology to catch up, etc., we're finally
recording our originals. The thing is, we started in December of '06, and we're still
sloggin' it out . . . . I'm "producing" the
recording, because I'm the only one who took
the time to figure out what to do. I've always
been the tech person anyway, so it makes sense.
The biggest problem is motivation--until I played
some recordings of some songs where I played
everything, nobody seemed ready to move. I
knew that once they heard how good it could sound
everyone would be hot to record, and I was
right. Believe me, the biggest problem is
getting everyone on the same page. The tech-
nology, being as good and as cheap as it is
is the least of your worries.
One more thing. I've never seen any posts
anywhere about the art direction for a self-
release. I'm doing it all, using Photoshop
and everything else you can think of. Any one
out there doing this sort of thing?
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Apr 10, 2007 06:52 am Im not really the producer, my bands lead guitarist has a great ear and is equally as savvy as i am. Him and the second guitarist though have very different views on equipment and sound than i do. They are very set in the "pro-studio" way. Firstly, they want mic every piece of the kit, but we did recordman styled stuff on the drums and it sounded great, even they agreed, but their still very adamant about micing every piece. Micing every piece would mean us having to drum mics for our 3 toms, snare, kick, two over heads and they even want a pencil on the hi hat. We would also need another soundcard or atleast add another delta 66 to get enough trax to support all the mics. They also don't like lining in a bass, which to be honest we havent got a good sound out of yet, but they want to get a ton of mics to surround the cab. They also want top of the line preamps and compressors or nothing at all. It was hard enough just to convince them to do it at home, since were on a very tight budget. There not being completely nazi about it, but they just have their doubts whether bleeding out for a pro studio- versus staying within our savings will be like. My second guitarist is also a perfectionist.. and i guess u all know how that bitter sweet that can be, but they also trust HRC. All the purchases weve made so far have been stuff ppl on the board have said are good, adn they all worked out great.
And about the band art work, our drummer does it all, yep we are a totally self contained unit from pressing to producing to distribution.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 10, 2007 08:38 am Quote:
They are very set in the "pro-studio" way.
Has any of these mates recorded in a 'pro' studio before? You can buy all the high end equipment you want, but if the engineer doesn't learn how to make the stuff 'sing' then it'll still sound sub-pro, if you know what I mean
Pro studios sound pro (i think mostly) because they have pro-level engineers behind the board, and doing the recording.
Plus, they also have a pro-level producer (don't underestimate this part) that has great vision, as well as a great ear, and knows what is going to work in the real world, and knows how to get the good performances and good product.
Plus, they have pro-level mixers, that put the song together, with creativity, clear vision, and sometimes clairvoyance.
Plus, they have pro-level mastering houses working on the stuff. This is certainly not to be overlooked.
As you can see, it's not just a bunch of guys, that can play great music. It's a list of highly competent staff, working towards the same vision.
If your bandmates don't have those things on board, than you'll be setting yourselves up for disappointment down the line when it doesn't sound like total gold.
I'd suggest being realistic, knowing your limitations, and knowing that you're working in a budget. Top of the line preamps don't start at 500$. Top of the line compressors don't start at 500$. And, microphones that are worthy of top of the line preamps & compressors don't start at 1000$.
They're all up above that.
But, good quality preamps can be had for 500$, same with compressors, and microphones.
Also, how are you going to record 9 or 10 drum mics at once? Again, you'll need a large set of preamps to get started.
High end studios are built for speed, getting the performer in, and getting great takes in a hurry. We don't have that luxury. We have to manipulate our equipment to meet the next task. We also don't have the luxury of having a staff on board. We usually do everything ourselves. We also don't have capital backers, pumping money into the organization when something needs to be done.
We 'live within our means' so to speak. If you and your band can learn to maximize your equipment, you'll more than likely make a very fine product.
As dB stated above, glorious tracks have been recorded with less, and mixing skill is in the ears, not in the equipment.
hth
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 10, 2007 08:40 am Oh yeah, if you don't have a huge, great sounding room, then the bass will be very hard to get sounding right. Bass waves need a lot of room to open up.
Line in shouldn't be scoffed at, as there's great solutions for this.
Plus, putting more than one mic on a cab introduces phase issues. These can be overcome, but shouldn't be ignored.
Put one mic on a cab, then also record the line in, and mix to taste. Creative mixing comes into play here.
Should be very good.
RigsbyUltra MagnusMember
Since: Nov 13, 2004
Apr 10, 2007 09:15 am I have to say, i hate the term 'Pro', it's hideous and kind of out of date now to some extent with so many decent records being made by people who just take the time to get it sounding right.
But anyway. Yeah, it's far more about the engineer and his ears - and not taking short cuts: get it sounding right into the mics, don't leave it for the mix and be thoughtful about the sound you're trying to get - how can that be achieved with what you have? Think about that stuff, try things out and don't hurry to get it done. Don't be afraid to re-track something that isn't sounding right.
Pjk is right, it might take longer to get those sounds, but they're achievable if you take your time. Don't be rushed by your bandmates, take them through the process and explain that it can take a while to get what you and they want. get them involved and excited and you're half the way there.
Have fun dude!
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Apr 10, 2007 11:28 am thanx for the great reassurance
bands r tough aint they. My guitarist are both very artistic people, with all the complications that entails. They are really sensitive and both real perfectionists but ofcourse that works more to an advantage than anything. Ill keep trying to convince them, though it will be HARD!
And since i started this topic.. any suggestions for the equipment i should get that i said: monitors, preamp, compressor.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Apr 10, 2007 11:42 am Hi crux, I'd like to add my 2 cents worth. Personally we chose to do everything ourselves but this is because we are trying to save money and we want to learn the ropes. However, there are drawbacks to doing things yourself.
1) Sometimes working with a studio will help the band to stay focused on playing well and not worrying about tracking etc.
2) Having someone else mix often produces better results as they are not personally attached to the project and are unbiased.
3) 99.9% of us cannot afford the top of the line equipment and treated rooms that a pro studio has to offer.
Depending on what what your expectations for the CD are you may want to consider tracking the drums in a pro studio and doing the rest yourself in a home studio. Again, all of this is subjective but if our band was going for a pro release this is what we would do.
Tim NUh, at least one more time . . .Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007
Apr 10, 2007 04:42 pm It sounds to me like that many mics on
the drums is just overkill. I've recorded 5
mics mixed down to stereo and then recorded,
and it sounds quite good. Of course I had
to try several placements and takes to get the
sound right, but that's fun for me so I happily
did it. As for the bass, I've been getting great
results with a DI form a Boss BR-532 bass algorithm--it seems like miking a bass amp is
asking for headaches. Electrics are different,
but for me not much--I DI them, too, from the
same Boss 532, and even though its algorithms
aren't the greatest, I'm still getting very good
results.
Somebody mentioned that studios can get you
in and out in a hurry, and that's true. I'm not
really in all that much of a hurry, and I work
for free. Fortunately for me also our band
doesn't mind me doing the recording. Good luck,
Crux--your situation is a little tougher, but
it sounds like you are all dedicated.
Apr 12, 2007 01:46 am Hey man,I'm in the same boat.The tools are now avaliable.I'ts all about time an labor.The last album I made in the studio sounded great.But I wished I had more time to do the vocals and guitar tracks to dial in my sound,feel etc.The money It cost us to make my bands last demo cost us about 5grand,all said and done.That was in 2000.I recently bought recording equipment(within the last 2 years)for about the same,a little less.Anyway my point is the raw tracks I've been getting on my own sound alot better than our last album's raw tracks.Not because of the studio,or the sound of the room or equipment.Simply because of the time,research and patiance(mostly time).Just get the best possible raw tracks you can get,take them to a good engineer to mix down(that's where the magic happens),then get mastered.It will sound pro.
RigsbyUltra MagnusMember
Since: Nov 13, 2004
Apr 12, 2007 01:56 am Exactly.
Tim NUh, at least one more time . . .Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007
Apr 14, 2007 01:14 pm Wow. $5000.00 will buy you some really good
equipment. Yeah, its always about the amount of
time one has to do what one really needs to do.
Apr 15, 2007 12:49 am Yea,5000.00 does sound alot.It was probably a little less but you can rip through that so fast if your not buying bottom of the line equipment.I will never buy bottom the line gear.Learned my lessons way too many times.Did the research and bought the best bang for the buck gear.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Apr 15, 2007 02:46 am Thanx for all the great suggestions guys! You know wat, my band is gonna do this thing at home whether they like it or not! hahaha
