Pro Tools Mix System with 2 x Apogee AD 8000's?

> > > Pro Tools Mix System with 2 x Apogee AD 8000's?

Posted on

edit0r
Member Since: Aug 17, 2004

Hello guys. Hopefully you can help me with a few questions.

I'm looking for a replacement for my aardvarks and would like to get as close as I can to Pro Tools HD. Obviously, I can't afford an HD rig, but the old Pro Tools mix sytems running PT 6.4 seem to be going pretty cheap.

I'd like to (ideally $$) run Tools with a couple of old apogee AD 8000's. I know this is possible by use of the Digi 8 plus AMBus cards that are floating round ebay.

Couple of questions regarding the 2 AD 8000's and tools:

1. If I installed an ADAT 8 AMBus card in each one of the AD 8000's and used a Digidesign 24 bit ADAT Bridge with a Mix 24 core card, would it be possible to gain 16 tracks of simultaneous 24 bit 44.1 kHz audio into tools?

2. If the above is possible, would installing another Mix 24 core card and ADAT Bridge connected to 2 8 Channel D/A converters provide me with 16 Channels of Tools Outputs?

3. Do multiple Mix core cards have to be linked in anyway physically like the Mix core cards and Farm cards?

4. Any one know, or have any links to where I can find second hand expansion cards for an AD 8000?

5. Is there any way to run the AD 8000's with cubase etc.?

Thats all for now. Cheers!

C_S

[ Back to Top ]


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 11, 2006 12:23 pm

As for 1 and 2, I believe its possible. I know a guy who is running older Apogee units and I believe that is the same set up he uses. I am not sure however on the output units he is using. I will try and get ahold of him and check.

I'm not sure at all on the linking of their cards.

And yes, I am pretty certain that you can run the cards in Cubase. It should recognize them without much trouble.

I'll see if I can dig up some links later today.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 11, 2006 02:07 pm

Thanks heaps noize!

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 11, 2006 03:14 pm

Oh, one more question...

With the mix system, do the farm cards provide more I/O tracks for pro tools or just more DSP Power?

And noize, if you know or stumble across anyone who is thinking of selling either Mix core cards or AD 8000's and/or accesories would you be able to let me know?

Cheers.


Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 12, 2006 12:03 am

I'm not sure on the farm cards, but I'll check into that as well. And ya, I'll let ya know if I come accross anything.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 12, 2006 12:39 am

Thanks dude.

Freeleance Producer/Engineer/Gtr
Member
Since: Aug 11, 2002

Nov 13, 2006 11:42 am

1 Mix core card can get you 16 tracks from an Adat bridge using a 'Y' digilink cable

We used this set up but after having HD i don't recommend it unless you're ok with this... there's no time delay compensation with a MIX system. HD has it and LE doesn't need it.

When you mix you use plugins and each plugin adds a certain amount of delay (from 3-10 samples) that you'll have to add to each track to match the latest track. so if there's 2 tracks in your mix and you add plugins to one but not the other, you'll have to instanciate the time adjuster plugin on the track with no processing and add the amount of sample delay that is affecting the processed track to the time adjusted track. pain in the rear, especially when using plugins that don't accurately report their delay or when using 48 plus tracks.




edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 13, 2006 10:00 pm

Oooh... Bummer.

I knew LE didn't have it but I had no idea mix didn't...

Maybe time to rethink.

Thanks for the info el musico.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 14, 2006 12:22 am

Another question...

A review states that pro tools 6.4 has delay compensation. Would I be wrong in assuming that I can run 6.4 with a mix rig?

Freeleance Producer/Engineer/Gtr
Member
Since: Aug 11, 2002

Nov 14, 2006 02:31 am

I think either 6.1 or 6.4 is the last compatible version for the mix system. Regardless of the software's features the hardware doesn't support delay comp.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 14, 2006 06:42 pm

Man, I am so glad I didn't go that route years ago and stayed true to Cakewalk and Sonar. I dont have to worry about any of that at all. Its all done in the software on autopilot.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 14, 2006 06:44 pm

Oh and CS, I have not had time to look into anything yet on this end. But it sounds as though you may be looking into alternatives anyway. Let me know.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 14, 2006 11:12 pm

I'm looking at getting a RME digiface or something of the like now to run the Apogee's through and sticking with Cubase.

Still would really like to get into tools, now. I'm finding it very hard to get the hang of professional studios just because the only program I know is Cubase. I'm stumped when it comes to routing and editing in tools.

Any ideas?
I was thinking maybe an M box to practice editing on or something... Really not keen on having no delay compensation for mixing.

Freeleance Producer/Engineer/Gtr
Member
Since: Aug 11, 2002

Nov 15, 2006 11:42 am

Well if you want to learn PT then get an Mbox. Just don't confuse the quality of the LE rigs with that of a full blown HD rig.

What the concern with "pro studios"? do you plan to work in one?

This is how we use our PT rigs, not that we have any grammys or gold/platinum on our walls yet, but I consider us pro in our results and demeanor

I do most of my band tracking on our HD rig in Studio A. I've got a Control24 and 2 192 interfaces which handles the high track count well, not to mention the AD quality. I might do some overdubs in Studio B on an LE rig (due to schedule of the A room and budget of client) then edit on one of our 4 LE rigs in Studio C and mix back in Studio A on our HD rig.

Also we can open Cubase, Logic, Nuendo sessions (Via OMF) in pro tools while keeping the regions/objects intact in the timeline.

[/rambling]



Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 15, 2006 02:01 pm

CS, I have to agree. Routing and editing in Cubase and Logic are not as accessable as Sonar as well as a couple of the lower end apps. Though PT is basicly the same as routing on a desk really. Its just a matter of knowing were to get at the routing assignments and such. I have to say it isnt the most intuative interface, but once your in it isn't bad at all.

I might suggest one of their DVD tutorials, although not cheap it can really get someone with your previous knowledge and experiance started off pretty quickly.

If you google I think you might find a couple DVD's and books out there that can help you get a good look into PT.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 15, 2006 05:04 pm

El musico,
I plan to work in many :-). I try to sit in on sessions with experienced producers and engineers to gain a bit of knowledge. I can usually follow and understand everything they do except the finer things when it hits tools. Also I've been given the oppurtunity to use a 'pro' studio to learn, but I'd like to have a bit of know how before I jump in. The mBox sounds like a good idea.

Noize,
How does Sonar compare to Cubase SX3/C4 in your opinion?
I honestly learn best from hands on, but I'll look into the DVD's.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 15, 2006 08:52 pm

CS, they are essentially the same. Audio engines are fairly comparable, other then Sonar being able to run its 64 bit double precision audio engine. Also Sonar is 64 bit ready as of version 5. It is also Vista ready. But my biggest reason's for staying with Sonar are the synth rack and the bussing/routing architecture. It is easy and right out front when trying to create just about any bussing config you can imagine. Nothing is hidden or hard to get to. Its all just a button click away.

Overall I just find it easier and quicker to navigate. That might be from using it for so long and growing with the changes. But I have never had a hard time finding anything or figuring it out. Without reading the manual as well.

As for the DVD's, ya I'm kinda the same. I do learn just from touching and doing, but I have honestly found myself opening a manual for the first time in years to actually deal with some of the new software synths and samplers. They are getting so much more complex.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 16, 2006 02:37 am

Ok, thanks noize.

So whats your opinion on the digiface + ad 8000's?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 16, 2006 09:20 pm

I have worked in a couple places with the 8000's installed and they are great. Rock solid, and they should work well with that card. I would double check though with RME just to make sure it will work solid on your sytem. But from what I can see spec wise they should work fine.

If I were to build a bigger rig I would either go with Apogee or MOTU units for the simple fact of being able to stack multiple units like that without performance loss.

My personal opinion is that the Apogee and MOTU clocks are both rock solid and hold the units together without any flaws.

Member
Since: Aug 17, 2005

Nov 16, 2006 09:40 pm

CS, also keep in mind that the quality of your recordings (in order) are:

1. The engineer
2. The mics
3. The mic pre-amps
4. The software

i think the only reason that pro tools is so big still is because of the name and the fact that it's the only software/hardware combination that works seamlessly with one another.

there are PLEANTY of higher quality systems with much better sounding pre's than pro tools.

apogee stuff sounds great, though.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 16, 2006 11:38 pm

Well, the engineer thing I work on every day :-).

The pro tools rig would be more for the learning so I can step into an assitant engineers position in the future and have a broad base of knowledge.

Also my aardvarks do not work so seamlessly together, so the apogees will be a replacement.

I've found that tools is a lot less convoluted than other programs. I'm just slow using it :-).

Have you had experience with the Apogees and pro tools?

I would argue that the converters are more important than the pre's though... And I wouldn't invest in pro tools pre's/converters like the 96i (though I haven't actually listened to them).

Anyway, cheers for the advice.


edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 17, 2006 05:44 am

Noize, didn't see your reply there.

Ok, so 8000's it is, cheers.

I'm hearing a lot of chatter about the Big Ben and how it 'opens up the high end on any converter' as well.

Do you know how much a clock like that will affect the sound of the converters? And would I be correct in saying that the 8000's don't have a built in word clock?

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 17, 2006 05:35 pm

AND another question. It might be cheaper for me to invest in an AD 16x than buy 2 AD 8000's for 16 inputs.

Can I still run ADAT out of an AD 16x to the digiface?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 17, 2006 08:31 pm

Well yes the 8000's have WC built into them. But in regard to the second post about the AD 16X and DA 16X. You will be getting a huge step up going with the 16X series. They actually have the C777 clock technology that the Big Ben uses. I did get to listen to the 16X series and they are excelant pieces of gear. And if my memory is correct you do get or can card it for 16 channels of ADAT i/o.

That honestly might be the better way to go in my humble opinion. Nothing wrong with the AD 8000's to be honest but money might be better spent on the newer technology.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 18, 2006 05:58 pm

I reckon the 8000's look better though :-)

One last question. If I was going to get a 2 track D/A stage what would you recommend?

I was looking at the MiniDAC from apogee, but it doesn't seem to have a word clock input. Will that matter?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 18, 2006 07:22 pm

The Mini-DAC is probably the best choice. And no you wouldn't need the WC on it. Your not locking multiple channels together and it is really meant for DA conversion direct to moniter systems and such. You can actually run a 2 channel AD through it as well which I find kind of nifty.

Here is the spec page for it if you haven't already seen it. www.apogeedigital.com/products/minidac.php

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Nov 19, 2006 02:35 pm

Alrighty, thanks a bunch Noize!

AD16x - RME Digiface - Mini-DAC

I'm gonna be a happy chappy :-)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Nov 19, 2006 04:23 pm

Sounds like a merry Christmas to me. Good luck with the new gear and keep us posted.

> > > Pro Tools Mix System with 2 x Apogee AD 8000's?

Related Forum Topics:


If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.