Legal Music Downloading
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Posted on Feb 12, 2005 10:08 am
guitar_jim
Czar of Cheese
Member Since: Jun 09, 2004
What are any of you folks doing in terms of legally downloading music? There are several services available, and I'm curious as to what others are using.
I have started using iTunes, and I really like it. They have a lot of different music on there, I can usually find what I'm looking for. 99 cents per song or $9.99 for most albums seems reasonable. The best part about iTunes is that I can pay with PayPal. Sell crap on eBay...buy music. Sounds like a good plan. I'm not entirely happy with the iTunes player, but it gets the job done.
I also listen to a lot of music here on HRC and other types of places that host music created by indies such as ourselves. The Bad Martini group is awesome!!
Anybody else?
Jim
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cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Feb 12, 2005 10:26 am Yeah, I mostly get all my music off the net from indie websites such as this one, garage band, people posting stuff on soundclick (if I'm referred to a specific band), or I go to labels I like and many will let you download a song or three for free to promote the albums they're releasing. For whole albums, I just go to the music store.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Feb 12, 2005 10:30 am same here except I usually buy at concerts
Feb 12, 2005 01:46 pm www.purevolume.com is a pretty good site, lotsa up and comming bands there.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 12, 2005 01:46 pm I've been using iTunes as well. What I did was burn the songs I bought to a CD, then ripped them as wma files so I don't have to use the iTunes player.
Dan
Feb 12, 2005 02:34 pm Thanks Dan...that's a great workaround that I had not even considered!
Jim
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 12, 2005 03:11 pm Yep it works well Jim. I rip to wma lossless so any further messing with them doesn't cause them to degrade in quality.
Feb 12, 2005 03:30 pm Hey Jim
Thanks for the vote of confidence...kudos to ye.
Guys, I have NEVER downloaded a legal or illegal song in my life. I only ever downloaded off this here site and I can say, this is the truth, I sat one night and just for my own listening, took some tracks, burned a cd for my car and listened to it non-stop for about a week.
The last CD I bought was Green Day, American Idiot and didnt mind paying cause its class. Other than that, its old stuff I buy, old catalouge. I have every one of my cd's on MP3 on my own PC for my onw use (use the PC as a jukebox via Media Monkey (a kickass app by the way - better than I-Tunes AND its free!!!!) (www.mediamonkey.com)
Ye know, theres a lot to be said for the stuff produced indie and I mean that honestly. 2 years ago I classed it all (this is awful) is "rubbish if its not well produced"....what a dipstick I was back then - but, I'd never gotten into the indie scene myself let alone found this site, and since, REAL indie music. How wrong I was - the complete OPPOSITE is true man. I listen to stuff by all the folks on here and not only is a lot if not most of it VERY VERY WELL PRODUCED, its good music and thats genuine. Ye know, I mean this as a big compliment to one and all and I sincerly mean some of the stuff I hear on this site should be out to the masses cause its better than the dirge the public are subjected to.
So, big shout to indie music and big shout to all I hear on HRC. After all, where else would ye hear folks from all over the world collabin, makin beats and tunes, co-writing songs and mixing up weird and mad covers (even TonyD;s spoken word of one of ma rants - very cool!!!).
For this reason, I dont download any music..dont need to. Havent found anyting I wanna d/l and what I do like, I just buy on CD.
Kudos to ye all
Coco.
Feb 12, 2005 03:42 pm i'd like to hear that, is it still available....i could throw some sexy fretless licks behind it!
Feb 12, 2005 03:45 pm Dunno bud
The mad yin (and top funny bloke) TonyD had the file up for a while..dunno if he still has.
It was quite funny as I recall, not quite Scottish but a bloody good larf all the same (more Irish/Scots with a funny twang but a good try and a good laugh!!!).
Have a search of HRC for it...if its still there ye'll find it.
Coco.
Feb 12, 2005 04:10 pm arg, it's not there anymore! oh well...
Feb 12, 2005 06:19 pm Coco says:
Quote:
What a dipstick I was back then!
Somebody's been watching too much "Dukes of Hazzard" again!
Feb 12, 2005 08:32 pm ive only ever used emusic.com its mostly independent stuff, and you get 50 free downloads to start(you have to give a credit card). what i didnt like about emusic is the different ripping rates. but for me personally id rather buy the CD and rip it myself, but having said that I was able to download a Brazil 2001 Cd that is OOP on emusic :) i just wish local CD stores still existed, cause they usually have a great selection of what i wanted. thanks BEST BUY!
Feb 12, 2005 10:23 pm I'm with most of you...I would much rather buy the CD...something about holding it in your hands, not to mention the booklets and covers and such.
I usually only download music that I want to learn. If there is a song that I want to add to our setlist, I don't ant to have to buy the whole CD.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 01:03 am hey i wonder what the legality's are of downloading pirated music of CD's you used to own but lost?
just thinking out loud
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 13, 2005 01:08 am It would still be pirating Bleak. What would you have had to do prior to the internet if you lost or damaged your CD? :)
I've replaced many an Album/CD over the years that I've lost or ruined and had to pay for each one.
Dan
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 01:49 am Oh yeah, never thought of that! Good point.
Funny how we take the internet for granted :)
Feb 13, 2005 03:15 am Here's a general question I want to throw at ya's:
Would you pay to download indie music (for a nominal fee as set by the artists) if they were all indie beats?? So you couldnt buy the CD at all (unless the artists offered it?)...paying by say, PayPal ?? I dunno, maybe £1 a song ($.99c) or something - for INDIE music tho...like the stuff we make.
Also, would ye buy other stuff from the artists?? Maybe WMV videos, other merch if it were reasonable??
I know you'd need to like the music first - that goes without saying - but in principle...
I appreciate ALL feedback on this one.
Coco.
Feb 13, 2005 03:16 am P.S. The other thng here for this here scenario is the artists would DEFINITELY be setting the price and keeping 100% of the amount you paid - so you would be supporting the artist 100%.
Cheers for the advices on ma research...
Coco.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 13, 2005 03:52 am hmmm, well yes I would IF it were of, or very near commercial quality in all aspects. Most importantly though it would have to be a hell of a song (which is same thing that gets me to buy a commercial tune). :)
Dan
Feb 13, 2005 04:47 am Aye - thats what I mean. Decent production...I mean like bands and artists who have either done it themsleves (well) or had it done in a studio - just not broken thru yet,,,,of course, the song needs to be decent before I'd buy too - agree there wi yi.
Intresting...cheers Dan.
Coco
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 05:53 am I personally have a problem with 'Indie's' charging!
If one is an independent artist then he/she should be happy just to have their creation exposed to others.
And to what end does an 'Indie' artist see in charging for their Music?
If someone gets picked up and launched through a mechanism such as Sony or EMI (or so on) then let it ride.
Don't get me wrong - I’d love to make a bucket out of Music, but it is somewhat incidental to what I love to do - Make Music.
IMHO
Feb 13, 2005 06:10 am Aye - this is a point. What Im talking off here is guys who maybe in a band or solo.
Cant get a record deal or dont want one and want to look after themselves.
They pay for the recording time or buy a studio of their own like us lot. Want to put thier music out but have no way of doing this and cnat be bothered/dotn want to be screwed/beg the "big" companies.
So, they go indie and do it alone. They want to make a litte to cover costs/buy beer/whatever, but they dont charge any more than "pro" artists. So, they sell online (without ever wanting or hoping to be signed by a big label).
In this scenario, they wanna put their music out, make some beer money or a little on the side, maybe they do it partime like a pub singer etc - this is where I am coming from.
Im not talking of the guys who want folks to have a wee listen, purely hobbyists - I agree..they wouldnt necessariyl even want to charge for it...
A bit of a different angle Im lookin at there.
Cheers bud
Coco
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 06:42 am I'm not a hobbyist!
Feb 13, 2005 06:54 am Aye - maybes I never put that right...I didny necessarily mean yourself Bleak..just there are those of us who do it for a hobby i.e. with zero intention of making money.
Whilst music is a passion of mine, I still call it a hobby as its not my job...tho its an important hobby to me.
Thats what I meant....apologies for the confusion.
Anyways, de ye think this alters it a bit if ye look on it as the folk I refer to would be trying to make a little cash from it withoot ever intending on being signed etc.
Cheers bud
Coco
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 07:13 am Sorry Wullie, I've talked tae PC Murdoch, he sais it's all guid aye!
ye cannae whack what ye dae!
:)
Feb 13, 2005 07:27 am Oi Oi Bleak...I'll PC Murdoch ye!!!
Hahaha...aye - I'll make a Scot of ye yet!! hehe.
All the best
Coco
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 07:33 am :) i've got a scott in my corner for translation :)
Feb 13, 2005 09:14 am [quote]I personally have a problem with 'Indie's' charging!
If one is an independent artist then he/she should be happy just to have their creation exposed to others.
And to what end does an 'Indie' artist see in charging for their Music?[/quote]
What kind of crap is that?!?!?!
Because an artist isn't associated with a label they shouldn't charge? How are they supposed to make a living? Then you turn around and say you are not a hobbiest? Mighty steep contradiction there Bleak. if you are not making money at it, you are a hobbiest. And, who is anyone else to judge or label the motivation of another artist, because they want to make money at music, does that make them less of an artist? No...it makes them want to be a professional artist, making a living from their labor of love. And, if in fact they do it JUST because they are good at it and there is no passion, so what? It doesn't affect anyone else at all...if they make good music their personal motivation is moot.
If one is not charging, they are not making money, only spending it, if they are not making money they much keep other jobs, if they keep others jobs, they are, in fact, a hobbiest, not a professional, cuz professionals make money at what they do.
You seem to have a very contradictory stance on the subject, as do most people with your view point of the indie music movement, paying for music and such subjects.
Think about it, Bleak, seriously. Everybody is so in favor of the Indie movement decreasing the stranghold big lables have on the industry, I assume you do as well, being an indie (as far as I know). Do you really think any movement that does not generate an income is going to have any chance of:
1- beating the labels back
2- attracting any serious artist that wants to make a living making music.
Ummm, no, there is no chance without charging for the product.
The key is to charge reasonable price for a reasonable product.
Feb 13, 2005 09:44 am Coco,
What you describe is EXACTLY what I am interested in. I would love to be able to offer my music (specifically, my collection of Civil War tunes) for download, or for purchase of the actual CD.
Got to go with dB on this one...Indie doesn't mean "starving artist", it means "independent". No label, no financial backing, no boss man.
I have a great day job, but I'd still like to make some walkin' around money from my music.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 10:26 am DB
I read your post a few times to make sure I fully understood your point of view. Turns out I can only ‘appreciate’ what you’re saying but your rhetoric seems somewhat rehearsed.
“Because an artist isn't associated with a label they shouldn't charge? “
I fail to find anywhere in my post where I made this inference. I did, however, talk about an artist being happy about their music being heard (or exposed) and frankly I thought that was the premise of this site. – I did notice this isn’t majorlabel.com
“How are they supposed to make a living?”
That’s their (and mine) struggle – deal with it
“Mighty steep contradiction there Bleak”
Sorry DB, don’t see how! ???
“And, who is anyone else to judge or label the motivation of another artist”
Are you not doing just that to me with this post?
“And, if in fact they do it JUST because they are good at it and there is no passion, so what? It doesn't affect anyone else at all...if they make good music their personal motivation is moot.”
Don’t remember even touching on that! In fact I think passion resides here! I have worked with a lot of people over the years and this community overwhelms me with its conviction.
“..There is no chance without charging for the product.”
You can’t seriously believe that?
--
DB – While I agree with most of what you say I do feel a certain level of venom against me. I’m not going to **** **** ***** because you’re the ADMIN mate but it doesn’t mean I don’t respect you or your point of view.
Feb 13, 2005 10:33 am First, it's not venom against you directly, it's the view point you expressed, you just happened to bethe one expressing it. I can easily see where you took it as venomous, but I assure you it was not intended as such, I just have aboslutely no understanding of the viewpoint your expressed.
Second, if you ever mention anything as off color as the licking part again you will be banned, I will not stand for that type of language, this is a family-friendly forum. I am not the admin, I am the owner. While I personally have no problem with you, and actually never have and personally like having at the forum, that was a terribly off-color remark that will not be tolerated. I never asked or expected you to lick anything and personally don't expect everyone to agree on everything, but I see serious contradictions in your argument and will point them out.
As far as not mentioning that somebody not associated with a label not charging, and you say you never menioned that, you said:
Quote:
I personally have a problem with 'Indie's' charging!
An indie is somebody that is not backed by a label, so, in effect, that is exactly what you said. Explain how it wasn't?
And yes, I do believe that, if you are not going to charge money, how do you make money?...ummmm, can't be done.
There is an easy to spot contradiction. You state you are not a hobbiest, this implies you are a professional, professionals make money doing what they do, if you make money doing it, then you are charging money, therefore, going against what you said you have a problem with...unless of course you are signed to a label, then, you are not contradicting.
Feb 13, 2005 10:39 am The premise of this site is to help people make their recording sound the best they can. This site has no stance on how they are financially backed, or whether they charge or not or anything like that. That's really a moot point.
My rhetoric may sound rehearsed only because this same stupid conversation happens all the time here and other places. People seem to think that just because they make music for the love of it and not money that every artist should follow the same creedo. Which is what you imply when saying you have a problem with indie's charging for their music.
Some indies want to make money. All artists deserve the chance to make money if they find am audience that will buy it without being looked down on for doing it.
It's kinda like the same tired and worn out "sold out" argument that seems to crop up periodically...
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 10:45 am DB, I could dig holes all through that and match wits all night but I’ll back off.
Furthermore, I shall not mention anything of that nature again.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 10:47 am My last post was to your previous post but it still applies
Feb 13, 2005 11:20 am My only real beef with anything you said (other than the off-color retort) is sending the message, whether meant or not, that implies indie's shouldn't charge for their music. Which is total opposition to what the indie movement is trying to do.
Other than that, I have total respect for yours and everyone's opinion. And always have, even if my disagreement comes off harsher than intended (I get kinda passionate about some things and get carried away). But to most people I have talked to the indie movement is meant to provide a way for indie to sell and market their music and wares without needing the backing of a major label.
That is my only on-topic point I am trying to make.
That said, HRC Pro will soon provide a feature to allow artists to sell their products themselves, using the HRC Pro profile as the vehicle. SO the timing of this topic is ironic.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Feb 13, 2005 11:37 am I too, get carried away, in fact it’s a problem for the most part.
I think you waved the Olive branch and if so, please find it most humbly accepted.
I’m listening to ‘Hallelujah’, Jeff Buckley style, right now (prior to that, Faith no more – there’s some irony for ya!) :)
Funny how music puts you back in your box :)
Feb 13, 2005 01:25 pm Hey Guys
Apologies for starting a monster thread hijack kind off..my debate was based on research I was doing for a project I have on the go which I wont divulge fully yet as its not quite ready but Im putting together a new site for indie artists (bands or solo) to showcase their wares, sell or give away their music/stuff with any money made from sales retained 100% by the artists. NO commission, no fees - total profit for the artists.
Now, my concern was peoples willingness to buy indie music but the feeling I get from the vibes here is folk would purchase, if it was good enuff. Fair dues, I personally am the same. I wouldnt buy music I considered poor wether it was produced in a bedroom, loft or EMI Studios...end product is what matters to me - NOT who made it and how it was made.
I also wondered how receptive people would be to the facility I will provide and it would seem, just based on the feedback so far, folks may find this useful. My plan is to give musicians the facilities to put together a simple website loaded with their content but pre-built, with an attached shop (run via PayPal) where they can sell their wares - MP3, WMA or OGG formats, CD's, t-shirts, tickets - anything. It'd be the artists FULL responsibility...the shop mechanisim would be provided by me but I dont want a cut..they would be paying me for a hosting account with a max of say, 50mb but thats it. I give an automated tool system to build a simple site anyone can use but after that, its over to the artists to set prices etc.
ANyways, this is my project. As I say, its NOT finished yet but its getting there. When done, I'll let anyone who is interested know and ye can come along and check it out.
I know dB has stated HRC Pro will offer features to sell MP3's too, and I encourage EVERYONE who can afford to join HRC Pro and help support this site. Dont be confused here - I am in no way advocating my new project as anything like HRC, its entirely different with different goals - indie artists a way to sell/make money and indeed, if no profit is desired, give away or just stream their music....its all about PUBLICITY....so....there ye have it.
Again, apologies for starting a wee debate here - never my intention.
Respect to ye all...
Coco.
Feb 13, 2005 04:31 pm 90% of what i buy is INDIE. :)
Feb 13, 2005 05:05 pm Nice one xtc....glad to hear ye like indie stuff - keeps the scene alive, big labels screw less and everyone (cept the big labels) is happy!!
And also, means my project may have still more validity!!
Coco
Feb 13, 2005 09:41 pm coco,
will most of your artists be scottish? ("belle and sebastian" is one of my fav. bands) let me know when your up and running, so i can shop your catalog :)
on another subject anyone ever have the top of one of your favorite cd's get scratched causing skips/dropouts, is this not the most irritating thing!!! looks like im buying another copy of Dead Can Dance - Spiritchaser, unless i can find a program that will read it.
Feb 14, 2005 03:32 am Hey xtc
I will doing a localised promotion here in Edinburgh but there will be no geographical area singled out..everyone will be welcome. In fact I hope a wide, diverse lot of artists of all genres/styles etc sign up and get themselves on the books so to speak.
It will do the site good and will hopefully get the artists themselves more publicity/generate some funds for artists and bands as well as obviously help me to cover the costs!
I will be sure to give ye a shout when its up n running...thanks for the interest...When its ready - I'll be spreading the word so to speak...
Cheers buddy
Coco
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Feb 14, 2005 11:24 am Hey coco, it seems to me the question that should concern you is not so much will people buy mp3s of indie bands, but will indie bands pay a hosting fee for such a service. I thinks there will be some that will, especially if it will pay for itself through merchandise sold (there's your marketing ploy right there, or one of 'em at least).
Feb 14, 2005 11:36 am Coco and I have been shared MANY emails and MANY PM's over that very subject coolo.
While I personally appluad the idea and the effort, there are currently soooooo many OMD's available he's definately got an uphill battle. With places such as HomeGrownVinyl.com for starters. Each one saying they have one or two things that makes them stand out from the crowd.
It's a tough market to crack. Perosnally, when I get one other peice worked out, I am adding the feature to sell music here more as a value add, not basing the community around it...
Feb 14, 2005 01:26 pm From what Coco mentioned above - collection through PayPal, merchandise, and artists keep 100% of the take - I'd say that he's on to something.
Granted...it is an uphill climb with so many others trying to do the same thing. I think that Coco's service will be of value to a lot of people.
The big thing is promotion...
Also, dB, I'm anxious to see what you have up your sleeve!
Feb 14, 2005 02:19 pm Cheers guys...
Aye, the idea is to give the artists something nobody else does - good sense it is indeed. That means no irrelevant ads, no pop-ups, 100% keep on any sales with proper digital downloads automated planned for the very near i.e. the artists can sell stuff digitally without even having to send the stuff!!! It would work like when you buy software online etc - automatic links to the item, very cool...
I take all yer points as to the uphill climb, busy market and to be honest, it'll NEVER make me rich as such. It will be cool to do, and I'd like to cover costs, make some beer money for myself and start a good thing for the indie movement - something that I'd have loved when I started 12 years ago...stead of beggin bloody record companies!!!! swines...
But, the market is busy for sure. This is why I wanna do it different. Hopefully, better and I guess, time will tell. I plan on haivng charts, etc - the whole shebang so the artists have someone to compete against with genres, etc.
With the right promotion, I hope it'll take off and artists will get known. My site will be known and everyone will win. I will also be keepin some stuff back as a surprise but aye, it should be a blast!!!
I say again tho, if any membs here are thinking of hosting their music online, I suggest where possible, to support HRC first and foremost for the moderate cost it is...well worth it and nae doubt!
Cheers to ye all again
Coco
Feb 15, 2005 10:04 am Quote:
I take all yer points as to the uphill climb, busy market and to be honest, it'll NEVER make me rich as such. It will be cool to do, and I'd like to cover costs, make some beer money for myself and start a good thing for the indie movement - something that I'd have loved when I started 12 years ago...stead of beggin bloody record companies!!!! swines...
now this is a great attitude!!!
cheers coco!!
Feb 15, 2005 10:53 am Cheers xtc...thanks for the support.
Coco.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 15, 2005 12:51 pm If you're into live music, then check out bt.etree.org (at least I think that's the url...my company has it blocked). there's live shows there from most of the bands that allow taping at their shows (from Phish and Dead to My Morning Jacket and Iron & Wine to Dave and Friends and Gov't Mule, etc.). It's a great way to hear some new music, or some old music.
Sharingthegroove.org was a pretty good site for the same purpose, but they started getting into some sketchy grey areas with studio bootlegs and the like. I think that they were taken down at some point but are back now...maybe they learned their lessor, maybe not. I haven't been back to look.
Feb 15, 2005 10:30 pm tad,
i checked out bt.etree.org, this is great!!! yo la tengo boots!!! excellent!! ofcourse i dont know how to use bit torrent, ill have to research that,cant be too difficult
Feb 15, 2005 10:37 pm wow, victor wooten as well.!!!
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 16, 2005 11:55 am Yeah man it's amazing what all stuff you'll find there. I go there when I'm in the mood for some good live music.
as for bittorrent, you'll need to download the actual program itself, and then you'll probably want to download a client of some sort (I like Azureus, personally).
Feb 17, 2005 06:14 pm tad,
thanks for the link and the help, i downloaded a couple shows!! love it
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 17, 2005 06:21 pm cool, glad you got hooked up man. It's fast, isn't it? when there are a lot of seeds for a torrent, it can really fly. There was an article about bittorrent in this month's discover magazine, saying how it's algorithm is the future of file distribution on the internet. I don't doubt it.
