Jun 18, 2007 12:38 am couldn't have said it better myself....
i'm exploring the site.
thoughts on emotion and music...
Posted on Jun 18, 2007 12:38 am
whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member Since: Dec 30, 2004
Aug 27, 2001 - Contributed By Noize2u
Noize2u has a brush with conscience, and makes some great points we can all learn from.
Well I have written this and rewritten it about 30 times and I'm still not happy but here it is.
This is going to be a little preachy, (a little personal and very therapeutic all at once. Not preachy like Oral Roberts or anything so don't worry. Just some feeling's about some recent events in my life that pertain to how some of us make music, and how some of us shouldn't.
Okay, here goes with some of the personal influence's. Emotion plays a big part in how a lot of us write music, be it good, bad or indifferent emotion is always there. In some case's were it is a song written for a pop artist by someone other than themselves, it is the artist's job to convey the emotion that the writer felt. For the rest of us, it is the way we feel on a particular day, or something that happened long ago, or something we are looking forward to. These are the emotions that whether any of us will admit it, are what makes up the music that we write or play.
This type of thinking does not effect just music like love songs or ballads, even though they convey a lot of emotion. We can put emotions into heavy metal, punk, jazz, rap, hip hop, the list goes on and on, but you see what I am getting at. You don't even need word's to convey emotion. Some of the most emotional music I have ever heard has no word's at all. The emotion is in the music and the instruments used to make it. The way a voice can make you listen, so to can an instrument. Artist's like Kitaro, Tangerine Dream, Dream Theatre, Carlos Santana, Eric Clapton. Even guys like dare I say it, Yanni and John Tesh can change the emotion of a song just by the instrument they choose for a certain part. I have grown to love my synth's over the years, because of the large pallet of sound's that they give me. Not to say that a drum or bass or guitar can't be emotional, they can. Listen to guys like Santana, Clapton, Petrucci, Satriani and so on. They can make you cry, dance, or just listen with just the sound of their guitar's.
If there is no emotion in writing the music, people can sense it. And truly, there is a lot of music out there that is just that. Music, no emotion just music. I'm not saying thats bad, but you won't find them selling records to the mass public because everybody wants to feel something when they listen, and if its not there they won't be listening for long. Even the lowly old TV commercial has to have some emotion in the music, or it just ain't gonna get people's attention. Have you noticed who The music to some commercials is getting to be like a mini movie score very dramatic in some and subtle in others. That is how it should be, the music must enhance the vision, not overcome it but make you fell like you are part of that vision. In essence, make you feel good so you remember that product. I have done several commercials like that, and you know you have done your job if people are left in silence for a moment or two after they see it. I did a piece for a childrens fund that, the first time around in test viewings there was not much reaction. So I was asked to come up with something to "make people cry". After a lot of thought and watching that commercial loop in front of my face, I finally felt I had it. When they put it up for a test group, there was not a dry eye in the house. And the music that did it was vastly differant from the first go around, because I let my emotion's for what I was seeing come out in the music.
I personally have had a long dry spell of not feeling that I was putting the emotion's I wanted to convey in my music. It has been almost 2 year's since I have written something that I felt emotionally tied to. Now I have just been given a chance at something I had thought about for a very long time, but thought the day would never come. This event at this time in my life has filled me with emotions I have not had in year's. Feeling's of joy, confusion, excitement, thought's flying through my head non stop. The best way I know how to express them is in the music that I feel when I think about them. It is the thought of meeting someone for the first time in 16 year's, seeing someone I have never seen, for the first time. These are the kind's of thing's other's take for granted, but that fuel myself and other's to write and play the music that can be so emotional as to make someone else feel just as you or I felt when we are writing or playing that very same piece. Music can be a way of saying thing's we might not be able to say in word's alone. I guess some people are born with the feeling's and the ability to be able to put their emotions into music, and if I can have a creative influence on just one, it will make my purpose here all the more rewarding.
I know you may be reading this now, and thinking, what does this have to do with me? Well it may not make a difference now or even in the near future. But if you intend to make people listen and want to hear you, you will need to put some of yourself into what you create. You may never sell a million record's, but if you can effect the life of just one or a few with the music you create. You may just find the next time around that thought of those few, just might give you the emotion you need to write that million selling tune.
Ok, enough emotion for now, I may dig deeper into that again but only time, and a trip to California will tell.
Now for the preachy part.
I was given a demo of some music that at the onset sounded pretty good to me, sort of angry, but very powerful. After I had time to listen a little closer and make out some of the lyric's, I was shocked at what I heard. It was some of the most hateful words I had ever heard. And combined with the anger of the music itself gave me a turning feeling in my stomach that didn't go away for hour's. That is not the kind of emotion I will ever promote in music. Being a small independent and private studio, I guess they thought I wouldn't care and probably needed the work. WRONG. No matter how hard up I am, I would never lay my stamp of approval to anything that hateful and hurtful. Music is a very powerful tool and I never want to be part of anything that is meant to hurt or promote the hurting of other's. This world is in rough enough shape without trying to do damage to everyone who doesn't fit the mold of our society. So, as a final thought hear, keep the anger in the instrumental, and not in the word's. Then you can say you did let it out, but you didn't hurt or promote hurting anyone, including yourself.
Well I hope you made it to the end without getting to board, but I just had to let rip. Thanks for listening. I will leave you with a famous quote from someone I trust.
"Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together".
Keep Rockin and "May the Noize B with U"
Noize 2 U
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Jun 18, 2007 12:38 am couldn't have said it better myself....
i'm exploring the site.
Jun 18, 2007 08:52 am I had a strong emotional connection to the song Exodus in my teens. I have also felt enomerous emotions evoked listening to music throughtout my life. I believe music is a more acceptable means of communication for the display of emotion that many, however I see it as still a very guarded avenue. To be fully open and honest about oneself is a pretty tabu activity.
I agree with Noise per his decision not to produce some music. There is a lot going on in the music industry that I can not get behind. Hell, there is a lot going on in every facit of people's lives that I can not get behind. People will have what they want.
Jun 18, 2007 11:43 am Emotion really comes off in music... even if people don't get the meaning. One of the problems is that a lot of people, especially youth, don't bother with finding the meaning on their own... or bother seeing if they agree.
really, as musicians we're telling people what to think and how to feel.
And speaking of emotional music I'm really digging Flyleaf at the moment :)
Jun 18, 2007 12:03 pm Well done, sir.
Jun 18, 2007 01:24 pm Without emotion I don't think we (our band) would write anything. We find it difficult to write fictional songs. Everything we write is based on our own experiences (or people close to us). Every one of our songs tells a story. In the case of our first album the entire album was based on a story of a friend of mine. Sometimes we have to change a word here or there to make it work in the song but the overall story is there.
Jun 18, 2007 03:26 pm i seem to want to write in code, like beck or at the drive in. hard to express things for me. also hard to 'freeze' emotions into a song for me. sometimes i think i have an easier time if the meaning of the song can change as time goes on. if it's suitably vague, that can happen. the music itself can't be emotionally vague, though.
Jun 18, 2007 03:32 pm I am more in agreement with forty, my song messages generally shift, if it even has one at all. Typical I write to blow off emotions, not to portray them...
I don't really subscribe to the artsy-fartsy camp of being all emotional within music and stuff...
Jun 18, 2007 05:09 pm Emotions may not be the correct word for "it". I believe it is being in tune with one's spirit. Why do certain people touch the world with their songs. I believe that the artist must transecnd himself from the material, political, restrictive, civilized world and into the boundless, limitless, eternal world of freedom...the I don't give a **** stage. Like that instance when a performer is so wrapped up into their song/performance that they are on stage in front of millions but it seems as if they are not really there...they are alone in this world of freedom. I believe that if your purpose is not superior it will show in your art.
...or like a porno star...the moment when she is getting into the sex and totally forgets that there are 50 people in the room with cameras everywhere and she is just by herself, living in the moment...in this stage, the artist must create and he/she will create masterpieces.
...all of this wisdom and I can't even get my mic to record.
Jun 18, 2007 07:04 pm I'm really finding myself identifying with this one. Folks use to look at me like I was nuts when I was a youngster and use to tell them that we'd all be dead if it weren't for the music. But the way I see it..
I feel like music is a life force, we listen to a heart beat for 9 months, a series of beats in rhythm I guess that equals music. And then we come out and make some noise of our own. Then we go on until our own heart plays its final beat and then the show is over. So I like to say I couldn't live without the music.
That beat that is used so much in drum solos that gets a crowd pumping, becomes a heart beat for the crowd and the emotion takes over. I don't think I've ever written anything that didn't come from some experience I've had or shared. Staying true to your emotions of the music was a great choice.
Jun 18, 2007 09:20 pm hehe try readin' that post with the South Park character Stan's voice in mind...you know, when he gets all sentimental at the end of an episode...
all i know, is there's certian moments in music that easly send mutiple chills down my spine and give me goose bumps....and it's not awsome flawless chops that do it. it's feel.
Jun 19, 2007 12:16 am To me there is emotional music, which I write little of if any and there is music with feeling which I hope at least some of mine can evoke but I wouldn't call it emotion or written from emotion. The 2 can also blend somewhere in the middle.
Dan
Jun 19, 2007 12:26 am yeah, my new fun exercise is to pick up my bass and play words like "scared, rubbery, tip-toey, bubbly, tight, fridged, ballon" just random descriptive words and try to convey it through the instrument....it's hit and miss, but it makes for a fun self exploration.
Jun 19, 2007 08:36 pm Jeff Beck
Eric Johnson
John McLaughlin
Paco de Lucia
Eric Clapton
None of these guys needs anything but a guitar and an audience. Sound is air moving in waves. Music is sound with a determined form.
If aliens came to Earth we could communicate with them just by music. (ala Close Encounters...) We could also communicate with mathematics, but math wouldn't make them laugh or cry like music. There are a lot of people who can play an instrument or two or three, but a musician is someone who can make it communicate whatever he feels.
Perfect example, Jeff Beck's "Where were you?" from Guitar Shop.
Jun 19, 2007 09:17 pm That article was written about 6 years ago or so during a very interesting time in my life. I use the word emotion kind of loosely as a catch all for feeling's that the music might invoke in someone. Yes, I do tend to put some of my personal emotion into some of the music. But then again when doing commercials or sound track work as well as just writting, emotion comes into play in the way WYD and forty eluded to. The music is written to stir a certain feeling or feeling's in the listener. A gentle string part over a slow grinding guitar with a little pad behind it can add suspense to the picture being viewed. As forty stated, a changing state of feelings as the music moves on. Of course an entire piece can be angry, sad, happy or whatever you choose.
To me the lyrics are secondary and really just another instrument in the mix. Yes, the words can convey a feeling, but without the correct music behind it they are just poetry and nothing more.
Glen brings up a good artist, several really but Eric Johnson is the one that sticks out. As he stated Eric can create worlds of feelings just with the sound of the guitar. Al Dimeola is another.
I could go on but won't.
Jun 20, 2007 02:45 am I will, Hehehe...
Satch
Carlos Santana
Lionel Hampton
Tommy Ioma
Jon Lord
Jimmy Page
Pete Townsend
Jack Bruce
Harry James
Lester Flatt
Tommy Dorsey
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Jimi
and so forth...
Jun 20, 2007 09:46 am Oh my God! (best valley girl voice)
Who are you glnflwrs?
Satch, Hampton, James, Dorsey! Your talkin about the past when musicians knew more than the three cords C,F, and the other one. A time when people knew there was another instrument besides the geeeetar! When people used to draw little dots on paper that wern't piggers.
You must be old!
Jun 20, 2007 09:54 am I like C, F and the other one, beotch!
Jun 20, 2007 09:55 am Thought you might like that:))) snicker snicker snicker.
Jun 20, 2007 09:58 am I'm trying to figure out how to play that H chord
Jun 20, 2007 10:22 am Quote:
I like C, F and the other one, beotch! You mean there is another one?? Oh I get it, you're talking about using a capo.
Jun 20, 2007 10:24 am Quote:
I'm trying to figure out how to play that H chord
B is H in German notation:
www.tonalsoft.com/enc/g/german-h.aspx
Jun 20, 2007 10:37 am I got a Canadian guitar. It doesn't play German. Maybe that is why I haven't heard of the H chord before.
Jun 20, 2007 10:41 am Wow, I get it! I got a german bass geeeetar. H must be above the little double dot thingey, where I never go!
Jun 20, 2007 11:06 am Yeah, I thought in music, that two dots mean go back to the beginning . . .
Jun 20, 2007 12:46 pm I'm not old, I was just born a long time ago.
My first LP was the Kingston Trio with Tom Dooley and The Lemon Tree.
I saw Elvis' first TV appearance on Ed Sullivan.
I was five the day the music died.
I used to play my mandolin to Little Jimmy Dickens while watching Cal's Corral every Saturday morning.
I saw the birth of rock and roll, and Elvis wasn't the king.
My first record player had an acoustic tone arm with no electronic amplification.
No, I'm not old, I was just born a long time ago.
If it's too loud you're too old.
Jun 20, 2007 12:50 pm The 60's were pretty cool.
All the people knew how but had no tools.
Who?
The 70s?
Cheesy was Heavenly,
Plastic was phony.
Disco. Frisco?
Cisco and Pancho.
What was disco anyway?
Vinnie Barbarino has nothing to say,
But now he flies a jet.
In Qantas land I'll bet.
Jett Clipper Ella.
What a nice fella.
LedZep saved us from the 70's during the 70's.
But Mick would do in a pinch
My Big Ten Inch was a necessity especially
If you were the Bat Chain Puller
For Ultimate Spinach.
You might can tell, I almost didn't finish.
But then, you just look around and there you are
The 80's and we're still wishin' for a flyin' car.
But I can fly. I can kiss the sky
I'd fly anything just for you
Just like Steve Reeves, he could fly too.
Yeah, the 60's were pretty cool
But the truth came out
And we'd all been fooled.
. . . . . . . . . Elvis was not the king of rock 'n roll!
Jun 20, 2007 01:22 pm My mom used to sing lemon tree on car trips (amongst other wierd songs that I don't think anyone knows but my family...). There's something eery about that song.
Jun 20, 2007 01:26 pm Quote:
My Big Ten Inch was a necessity especially
Someone else remembers that! Aerosmith - Toys in the Attic, right? hahaha
Jun 20, 2007 01:35 pm Oh oh, you're old if you remember Toys in the Attic?? Oh man, what about Get Your Wings. "Lord of the Thighs" and "Woman of the World" were my favs.
Jun 20, 2007 01:49 pm Toys in the Attic, one of rocks greats!
Jun 20, 2007 03:34 pm You bet it was. Walk This Way, Toys in the Attic, Sweet Emotion, classics everyone.
Well written, excellently produced and promoted, and pleasing to the ears.
Another classic rock album with a lot of feeling was Bridge of Sighs. Procol Harum's former lead guitar, Robin Trower, came up with a mini opera type collection that just melded from one to the other.
Day of the Eagle, Too Rolling Stoned, Bridge of Sighs. Another of rock's great milestones.
I could go on and on.... nah, just Let It Be.
I get all worked up discussin' rock music.
Jun 20, 2007 03:57 pm Oh yeah, i still love listening to Trower. He's got depth.
My cousin was sitting in a detroit area music place on a sunday night, where they were having a local jam night type thing.
He says the MC/guy said they're gonna break for a short while, to let someone set up.
When they come back on, Robin T is up there, and proceeds to crank out for like an hour.
Needless to say, my cousin was WAY stoked from that one.
Then there's another time, my missus' brother was at a music place (round detroit) and was so 'tipsy' that he put his head down on the table for a while. While he was napping, Ted Nugent shows up, takes the stage and plays for about an hour, then bolts. Of course, her brother wakes up after, to be told this just happened. He was totally ticked at himself for that one =).
The guys he was with kept trying to wake him up, but no dice.
Jun 20, 2007 04:19 pm I lived in Austin, TX from '76-85. Any time Stevie Ray was anywhere near Austin my buddy and I would go. One week we saw him at Groen Hall on Friday, Maxi's On the Border Saturday, and at Liberty Hall on Sunday. They were all roadhouse type places, 300-400 max occupancy and it was easy to get right up to the stage.
Liberty Hall serves chili and cornbread at intermission, and we were chowin' down when somebody approached our table. We both looked up to see Mr. Vaughan standing there smiling with three Longnecks in his hands. (Lonestar Beer, the National Beer of Texas). He said, "Mind if I buy you two a beer?" We were spittin' chili trying to invite him to have a seat.
He said he'd seen us right at his feet three nights in a row at three different places, and just had to say thanks. He sat down and chatted the whole 30 min intermission. I still cry when I remember him.
Jimmy Vaughan said once, "Yeah, everybody misses Stevie's guitar playing, I just miss my little brother." I last saw him at the LA Sports arena. He opened for Jeff Beck. Talk about a night of broken strings...
Jun 20, 2007 04:47 pm Wow, now that is cool there glnflwrs. I wouldn't be able to talk if it was me.
Jun 20, 2007 04:49 pm I totally regret not seeing SRV when I had the chance, in Grand Rapids Mich, the week before he died.
My cousin (same one) and I blew it off, as it was a 2.5 hour drive from detroit, so we figured we'd see him when he comes around detroit again.
ugh.
There's another soulful player. One of my personal favorites.
Jun 20, 2007 04:50 pm Hey Gln, i'm wondering if your tagline is in reference to Foreigner?
Jun 20, 2007 06:58 pm "I'm a dedicated rocker, a real head knocker,
Don't look at his lady again."
Double Vision, their best.
I saw them with Ted Nugent in the rain at the Rose Bowl. Ted was getting amped by his wet guitar but kept on chooglin.
You know what Ted's definition of gun control is?
Hold your breath when pulling the trigger.
Another rock classic, Bayou Country by CCR.
Jun 20, 2007 07:10 pm Speaking of Stevie Ray, that was my son Tuna's first show. And sadly Stevies last. :-(
We had passes and all for back stage but only got to see him for a second as he had to get blowing out.
glnflwrs, I agree completely with you. The day I tell the boyz to turn it down is the day you can lay me to rest. As well, I'm with Walt on the good choices of performer's as well. Gotta agree as well, Elvis was surely not the king.
And yes, I remember that I cried, the day, the music died!
I was lucky enough to spend lots of time on the road and did indeed see SRV many times. And as well at Groen Hall and many other small clubs. That is something to see. I was at the taping for Austin City Limits and that was a killer show.
Aerosmith indeed rocked, as did Procol Harum and Trower on his own.
As for the record thing, although LP's were around my first piece of vinyl and I still own it to this day was a 78 rpm recording of In the Mood. Not the Glen Miller version either. Other notable bits of vinyl include Dorey of course, Goodman and Glen Miller.
Jun 20, 2007 10:09 pm Noize2u,
That Austin City Limits show was at Auditorium Shores, right? I was there too. It was at night with the river in the background.
Asleep at the Wheel opened for SRV, if it's the one I'm remembering.
My second or maybe third LP was The Golden Trumpet of Harry James.
I also had one of Pete Fountain's first LPs, and the Gene Krupa Story. My first double album.
All mono, of course, as stereo and FM hadn't been thunk of yet. No 78s though.
Jun 20, 2007 10:15 pm And Spike Jones, Murdering the Classics or Two for Tea. Chinese Rawhide.
LMAO ! !
Jun 22, 2007 10:22 pm Yep, that is were it was if my memory is still functioning. And yes, Asleep at the Wheel was the opening act. I have to admit I was pretty well lit up by the time the show even started. But I know I and many others just sat near the front watching and not moving at all, just staring at him beating the daylights out of that guitar. Then slowing down to play something smooth. Somewhere I have a picture of myself and a friend taking with SRV and autographed by he and the band. During that time he was an interesting fellow.
Jun 23, 2007 04:36 am cool stories guys!
i'm in a thread jackin' mood and was wonderin' exactly how FM radio transmits two channels of audio on one frequency....that's just mind blowing when ya think about it....hell radio alone confuses me (and i've even heard it explained from a UC Berkley professor...i'm gonna hafta listen to that lecture again. FM radio....it's funny the the internet came after it really.
Jun 23, 2007 04:53 am FM radio is transmitted using a multiplexed signal. Two stereo channels are multiplexed onto one carrier signal. That carrier is transmitted at the advertised broadcast frequency. 101.5Mhz, 95.7Mhz, etc. The two mpx signals are combined and then seperated using harmonic frequency technology.
When FM first appeared I kept looking for the two antennas everytime I went by a station. I figured there had to be a left and right antenna.
Jun 23, 2007 05:31 am Quote:
it's funny the the internet came after it really
i stand by my statement....we figured how to multiplex two channels, each carrying 20-20khz frequency's, on one frequency.....that amazes me!
i can only imagine what it was like hearing FM stereo for the first time...or hell, even stereo for that matter...what a jump! for some reason, 5.1 isn't all that awe-inspiring to me...it's best for movies...i can see it now, maybe like the mono purist, i actually prefer stereo to surround, when talkin' music...5.1 just seems to be overkill. i bet it'll be 'standard' sooner or later (judging by history)...but for music, two channels covers the bases just fine.
Jun 23, 2007 05:44 am I'm with ya' WYD. There's a non-realistic aspect to 5.1 that they need to work out before I adopt it as my standard. Heck, I have a Sansui QX2000 as my stereo amp and it's Quad. I don't even care much for that and only use the front channels.
Sheesh man, I only have two ears, how could four or five channels ever be better 'n two?
When I heard stereo for the first time I got kinda' dizzy from hearing the center. Everytime I sat between the two speakers and heard the singer in the middle, tipsy. But after a couple of weeks that went away. It just pissed me off that my mono records wouldn't play stereo on the new machine. Why not? If it couldn't do that it wasn't worth a damn. That went away real quick, too.
Jun 23, 2007 05:48 am Quote:
how could four or five channels ever be better 'n two?
i'd say in 'real life' sound comes at ya from all directions....which is why it's good for film.
did your mono records play both channels in mono, or did everything come out of the left? and why is it that left is always associated with mono anyway?
Jun 23, 2007 08:29 am Quote:
did your mono records play both channels in mono....
Yeah, the stylus had 2 sides. The record had one signal in the groove, so both sides of the stylus picked up the exact same thing and I got left and right mono.
The left channel being associated with mono comes from convention and is hard wired in mixers, etc. We all say "left and right". Not "right and left". We read left to right. When they had to associate mono with a default channel, left came first. It's an unwritten "standard" or conventional.
My ex mo-in-law said right and wrong, she didn't know what left meant. She was from Mexico. She used to say, "Turn the wrong way at the light".
She was smarter than my ex though.
Jun 23, 2007 10:52 am Interesting twist. I have to admit that I like stereo the best for listening to music. My first inclination is to say that is because it is the most lifelike to a true performance, but I doubt that is correct as most house systems are mono. As far as surround systems go, I have heard some neet effects that are enjoyable probably because they are still new and unique.
It's all good. Better than listening the the neighbor mow his lawn.
Jun 23, 2007 09:51 pm Aren't most of the big coliseum type PAs biamped or even triamped? That right there makes them stereo, that and the probability that the bass and lead have seperate amps/speakers.
I like stereo best, and I think, with a good mic placement and mix, it's the most lifelike because you can place every instrument in depth and pan fairly accurately. There aren't many music environments with speakers at the back of the crowd. Mostly, the sound all comes from the stage area. Stereo.
That being said, at the movies I can certainly place all the components of the surround sound pretty well, too. That's where I do like the surround, in the theater.
I hope I don't sound argumentitive. Not meaning to be. Just BS'n.
Glenn
Jun 23, 2007 10:21 pm PA's are generally mono because otherwise you cannot produce an even listening experience...ie...people sitting near speakers only hear what comes out of that speaker...and if it's not everything then they get pretty mad...
Jun 24, 2007 01:29 am Quote:
When FM first appeared I kept looking for the two antennas everytime I went by a station. I figured there had to be a left and right antenna.
glnflwrs, you must be old. I turned 47 today, and FM was OFN when I was born. Edwin Armstrong, the father of FM, would be appalled to see what has happened to his genius idea of a high fi medium and how it has been bastardized and polluted. The compression would probably piss him off the most.
Herb's drunk.
Jun 24, 2007 02:24 am me too!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY HERB!
Jun 24, 2007 03:44 am Nah, I'll only be 55 next month, and that's not old.
Keith Richards is old. Ginger Baker is old. Lady Bird Johnson is old. I was just born a long time ago is all. The Fabulous '52. Now that was a good year.
I remember buying our first TV. We were all sitting around watching Amos 'n Andy. I heard a noise at the window and looked over to see a crowd of people in our driveway peering through the window. I guess we had the first TV in the neighborhood. That was around '56 and we could only get three channels.
Jun 25, 2007 10:38 pm Glenn, thats because there were only 3 station's. NBC, ABC and CBS. Then by 58 or 59 a few local affiliate stations began to appear and broadcast local news and a tiny few programs. WTCN was the first here I believe. They were the local NBC affiliate and on channel 11. All these years later they are now called KARE (and yes it stands for CARE) and still the NBC affiliate. They are the only local station that hasn't traded affiliation or changed anything other then their call letters.
Now stop for a moment and think of how many major network stations there are because of cable and satalite. Amazing isn't it.
But back to the stereo thing. Even though stereo was around by the time I started to learn about mixng and such. doing the initial mix in mono was a must to make placement in the spectrum perfect. Placing it in the stereo spectrum was secondary. I still work that way to this day.
As for clubs and concert venues, Bi-amped and Tri-amped is used indeed, but they still yield a mono signal in the end. There was a club here that did the stereo thing and it literally sucked for the reason's stated above.
Jun 26, 2007 01:11 am hmm that's a good idea, usually one of the first things i do is pan everything out then proceed to mix, checking in mono here and there....i'm gonna try your way next time.
Jun 26, 2007 01:27 pm YES! I knew there was someone left on the planet older than me! I kinda suspected it might be glnflwrs!
WhooooHooooo I'm younger than someone! Gonna get out my cane and hobble around to Mosses shuffel tonight yesserieeee!
Jun 26, 2007 01:34 pm Quote:
All these years later they are now called KARE (and yes it stands for CARE) and still the NBC affiliate.
I remember when they changed their call letters and thought "jeezuz, is that dorky"...
Jun 26, 2007 01:44 pm The recent Roger Waters concert was done in 5.1 and it was pretty cool to exerience. Imagine listening to a song like "Time" and having the background sounds coming from very defined areas of the venue.
Here's a photo of there "command central". I thought I had a pic of the 5.1 setup but no such luck.
Jun 26, 2007 06:49 pm FOLDING CHAIRS!!!! they atleast should have bean bags or something!
Jun 26, 2007 07:56 pm dB, hell ya that is dorky! I have thought that as well from day one. But I guess they are involved in a huge way and done some pretty interesting things for the community at large so I'll forgive the nutty call letters.
If I'm not mistaken I believe Genesis is also going to tour in 5.1 if not already doing so. I believe they are on the Europe leg at the moment.
Jul 01, 2007 07:41 am N2u,
I can see the idea of bi and tri amped ending up as mono, after all, that is only a big crossover essentially. But, how do you get a spectrum from a mono signal? I haven't heard a rcorded mono signal that you could say things were positioned in? Is is a level/presence thing or can you really position aspects of the sound? How?
Not doubting you at all, just wantin' a bit of schooling. Checking the mix in mono first would seem to be the way to do it, if I knew what to listen for and how to change it.
Glenn
Jul 01, 2007 08:24 am glnflwrs,
Maybe I'm missing your question, but everything is tapped first into a board. You can do anything with it you want from that point. What would interest me at this point would be the layout for the speaker arrays. No wonder they need mega-bucks for a ticket. To my simple way of thinking the costs of such a production would be simply massive.
It would be interesting to hear the reviews of those concerts.
Jul 01, 2007 06:44 pm Glen, its actually pretty simple when it comes to placing instruments in the mix without panning in the formula. It all come down to the use of reverb or EQ or sometimes both in combination. Both Reverb and EQ can help set an instrument apart or settle it into a desired depth in the mix. If you want something to sit back in the mix slightly reverb used in moderation will do it every time. Other times it may take both a subtle bit of reverb and EQ to set it back in the mix. EQ can help bring something sitting back in the mix forward as well. Delays work sell also for helping put an instrument in place. I've even turned to effects such as chorus and the like to give an instrument a different place. Then once I am happy that all sits were I feel it belongs, I will begin to do a stereo mix by panning things out to different locations if they need it. With rock music I tend to be very subtle with panning, but music with a lot of electronic or synth sounds I will use more exaggerated panning to get things set apart from each other.
I wish I had the talent of someone like Mathew Sweet when it comes to that kind of thing, but I am still working at it. I love to experiment so that is why I find it crucial for me at least to start in mono and make everything sit well first, then move on to a stereo mix with more depth.
Jul 01, 2007 06:48 pm on a side note, i've read a really cool thing to do for HUGE PA's is have the vocals isolated to their own speakers and the instruments gooin' to seperate cabs...it helps keep the clarity in them..
Jul 02, 2007 05:44 pm Hey, that sounds perfectly do-able to me. Both N2u's and WYD's methods would tend to work. But I now have a good idea of how you can place a part in a mono signal. You are doing what the mics would do if they were perfect and perfectly placed. Just one track. Epiphony ! ! !
I guess all naturally made sound is mono. It only becomes stereo when it is heard by two ears. Hehe!
How many trees fall in a forest in two channels? Only the ones that are heard.
(I'm trippin'. Or not.)
Jul 03, 2007 10:45 am Me thinks humans us odd ways of describing things. All sounds are single source.
What I am interested in is just what do they create in a 5.1 or X.x performance? Are they going to re-create the reflections in my living room? I hope not. I like going to a large 'theator' for the accoustics. Maybe they will thrill me with things popping out of un-natural places....that might be fun. I guess I'll have to try one when they become pase' and the price comes down.
Jul 03, 2007 01:32 pm You hear the alien breathing behind you, or the cracking of a pistol fired from stage left, or the whimpering of me from bein' scared shitless right beside you.
Think 3D audio...
Cool, but not very real.
Jul 03, 2007 01:41 pm Some 5.1 is done so well it trips me out, I never really get it much in a theater cuz it's so loud, but in my home theater, I have watched some movies that the surround mix is wicked cool...
The one that always jumps out is in Independence Day with Will Smith...in Area 51 they shoot at an alien ship when the shields were up, the bullet bounces off and bounces everywhere and you can totally hear it shoot around you from speaker to speaker, cool as hell.
Jul 03, 2007 01:46 pm Saving Private Ryan is an unnerving experience. On the right place in the middle of my couch, a few of the bullets seem to fly past the front AND back of your head. Makes you want to duck, or get up and change seats.
Jul 04, 2007 09:26 pm I remember when the first Star Wars movie came out in some Dolby Digital or something it was cool. In the opening scene when the star cruiser comes from the top of the screen like it is coming up from behind you the rumble came from behind and shook the whole theater. This was in the days when the theater's still had huge screens and such. I have liked a few of the newer movies in 5.1 now but can't think of any that really tweaked my audio senses all that much.
Jul 04, 2007 10:58 pm Wow, deep stuff. The emotions in music. What a Topic, humm well if we analyze the emotions in the history of humans, heck lets truly go back to very early of music times, I am talking more like before the Rococo even Baroque music, the western music,, ok not only western. where does Music comer from?, why do we have music, Now a days we see much music out there , any genre that is simply and unfortunately money making machine.
We can go on and on the list of Composers and musicians, that have created music that Is deep and expresses the soul, what's the soul, yep deeper then that. Lets say, Brahms, Bach, Paganini to Jim Morrison and the Doors, Hendrix, Red Hot chilly peppers, etc etc, well humm I really see this topic getting deeper, and is nice to see and reflect on Music with emotions. ;lets see what comes out. This is getting good, I will keep tuned. C’mon lets get deeper here.....
Jul 04, 2007 11:54 pm there's an intereting radio program about "when does sound/noise become 'music'?"
www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2006/04/21
man i love NPR!
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