immersion music method (IMM)
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Posted on Jun 24, 2006 05:11 am
fortymile
Member Since: Jan 18, 2003
anyone heard of it? theres a book out right now in local stores (borders, etc.) the idea is that you set aside a day with the goal to write 20 complete songs.
its to break creative block. quality doesnt matter. completion does. relax strictures. dont go for 'good.' let loose. anything goes. some of it will be great, some of it will suck.
songwriting 'lodges' have sprung up around this idea. i am thinking about doing a session sometime in the next week. but its better when peeps do it together. just wondering who's heard of it...
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Jun 24, 2006 05:30 am ick....man that's scary to me....i like to work 'when i'm in that zone' and i'll spend two or three nights workin' on one part...i don't think (although i should know better than to say such a thing) i could spit out 20 songs, good or bad, in one day...that makes my head hurt just thinkin' about it...but i bet it'd be a damn fine exersize/workout for that part of the mind...man that makes me wanna just sit down here at home and say "five songs start to finish go!" how do they 'teach' this?
i can imagine the course now "ok people, write" i can do that at home....i donno, you've perked my curiousity, i've never phathomed (sp?) such a thing... go for it, and let us know how it goes! yeah! ok the bed beckons.
Jun 24, 2006 12:44 pm I write utter crap if I force myself to write songs. I have to wait for inspiration (which only happens about once a week or so). However, forcing myself to write does help me learn more about writing/producing :-)
Jun 24, 2006 02:57 pm how do they teach this? they dont, but the book goes into what you should do. you should set aside 12 hours, and the goal is to complete 20 songs. you dont have to hit that goal, but the idea is to have that goal in mind so that you stop caring about quality.
i never finish anything. the whole damn time ive been coming here i've never actually finished a song. this method makes you learn to make decisions.
its supposed to make that annoying editor in your head go away. you're supposed to write 90 percent crap and you're supposed to be weird and funny if you want to. the idea is that you then get together with friends who have done it also (songwriting lodges)get some beers and snacks, and play the results.
i don't believe in waiting for inspiration. i have gone for a few years before without finding it. it's like --a wildly inefficient way to write music if you care about output. even tori amos doesnt wait for inspiration. she uses an assembly-line approach and notebooks full of phrases that occur to her in her daily life. then when its time to write, she just does it. sits there and creates the inspiration.
i bloody hate that word. 'inspiration.' he's always late for his appointments. then i gotta go out and look for him.
Jun 24, 2006 03:08 pm When I say inspiration, I don't really mean that it's out of my control, because you can trigger it by doing things sometimes. I just mean that if I think to myself "alright, I have to write a song now", it isn't going to happen. Or at least the song with suck.
Jun 24, 2006 03:42 pm i hear you. but with this thing, you dont say 'ok i have to write a song now.' saying 'i have to write a song now' probaby conjures up all the things that are actually in your way: judgments, feelings of 'this isnt good enough, i want to write a GOOD song,' etc.
when you use this method you are actively avoiding that stuff. you are trying to A. have fun B. finish things. i havent tried it yet. im sure it's frustrating, but maybe also fun. but im interested in knowing if it might help me with structure. completing a bunch of songs--without taking it seriously-- i can draw on things i know but dont know i know, maybe, and learn new ways to string things together.
but the end goal of this is to maybe come out of the day with a handful of sections worthy of developing into something better later.
Jun 24, 2006 03:53 pm Writing music is one of those things I have never been able to force...when I do, like stated above, it ends up being crap...if I forced myself to write an album in a day it would wind up like Zepplin's Coda album...
Jun 24, 2006 04:11 pm thats good! thats the point!
haha you guys are not getting it yet. quality does not matter
Jun 24, 2006 04:16 pm I think I see your point. So it's not really about making good songs per say, just battling wish-washyness and getting good at being decisive?
Jun 24, 2006 05:18 pm yeah, and also, you will inevitably have little riffs and sections that you actually like, at the end of the day. later, you can go back and use them in other things, in other ways.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 24, 2006 10:52 pm That is the point exactly. I have been known to sit in here all day while playing with a new synth, and I'll just hit record if something sound good as a riff or idea. Then move on or maybe add little bits to it. I have made several of the commercials from bits that came out while just screwing around. And yes, alone it sounded like crap. But later after coming back to it and giving it the attention it needed, that is when it works out right.
I do work better when sitting alone, but at the same time working in a group setting does seem to force more ideas out into the open from simple little riffs I may have thought to be just crap and not worth the effort.
Very good thread forty.
Jun 25, 2006 12:48 am Glad I stumbled onto this one. Forty is onto something here. I've stubled across this concept in a songwriting book I have that briefly touches on this. I seem to have developed a fairly terminal case of writer's block and would benefit from some forced creation.
I too work better sitting alone.... well ... at least I've convinced myself of that. I must say, I'm very drawn toward learning to become a song writing machine that eats songs for breakfast. That skill would create major added value to anyone invloved in music, and in my case, would be my ace in the hole. Do tell of results . . .
Jun 25, 2006 02:30 am holy **** what a great thread, forty, you f'n rock man!!!!
i've kinda realized this on my own a few years ago, i too would never finish anything (intentionally) and spit out one 'picture of a song' EVERY night.....as of today i've got around 200 of these 'projects' most of which are abstract or downright ugly, and then there are the jems....i show my 'favs' to pepople and wait for someone to really grove with it....my ex in florida did just that with something i wrote a year before we met......ok i gotta finish readin' the thread, i just had to jump in...
Jun 25, 2006 02:39 am god, i can't immagine these "songwriting lodges"....it'd definately be and inspiration orgy. and i bet some damn fine tunes can come out of it...
hmm i wonder if this is what will be gooin' on at my 'songwriters workshop' gig. hmm i might hafta record it accually...ahhh yes! and perhaps post! yes yes!
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jun 25, 2006 10:59 am This is kind of similar to how I do all of my songwriting nowadays anyways.
For the initial phase of a new song, I just sit and write. Just go with the stream of conscience. No worries about rhythm,rhyme, meter, or anything. Just get some thoughts down on paper. Sometimes I don't even have a point when I sit down, but one develops through this process. The more I write, the more concise my point becomes. But I don't stop to erase something if its silly, nonsensical, or just plain dumb...that's not the point of this part, its just to establish a base of ideas to draw from later.
Next, I start to chisel away at this big block of nonsense until it starts to take the shape of a song. I keep going back and refining and rewriting until it gets more streamlined. Little bits of phrases that I wrote down spark other ideas, turns of phrase and what not. Sooner or later, I end up with something that sticks to my original point (or at least sticks to SOME point), has some rhythm and meter to it, maybe some rhyming, and is structured to fit into a song form.
Then, at some point I start drawing froma similar pool of ideas for music, and spend some time making the music and words work together.
So my songs tend to go through several incarnations before I consider them finished. The longer a song lingers around before I record it, the less it resembles the original ideas that spawned it.
Plus there's the changes that a song goes thru when I go thru the recording process. I'm sure that all of us singer/songwriter/home engineers experience the same thing...all this time, I've been imagining the song with the tools that I use to compose and arrange it (guitar, vocals). Now all of a sudden I can start layering, separating the different pieces and assigning them to different instruments.
So the song by this point is totally unrecognizeable from the original brainstorm session, but there are bits and pieces of it intact, plus the overall 'feel' of the song.
Yikes, sorry for the long post. I haven't been writing much lately so it kind of feels good to rehash the process. Maybe I'll sit down this morning and try for some desperately-needed new material.
I don't think that you need a room full of people in a lodge to spark your creativity. I think that your mental block is that you're trying to write the perfect song every time you sit down to write. Instead, just write. The song may suck, but tomorrow's song may not. Consider it practice, and your songs will get better and better over the course of time. A year from now, you might have 100 songs. Even if only 10% of them are 'keepers', that's an album's worth of material right there! And you can use the 'b-side' material for inspiration for future music. Practice makes perfect!
Anyways good luck, I hope you can come to terms with your songwriting soon because I'm about ready to hear some fully-realized FortyMile songs!
It's only been what, 3 years? ;)
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Jun 25, 2006 12:44 pm That just wouldn't be the way I like to work on a song. It's probably a great way for many but I prefer to just doodle around until I come up with something I think is worth developing. I record ideas for songs, but to actually make a goal of x number of songs just wouldn't work for me, I just prefer to develop and finish each song as the idea hits and to do that I have to really feel the song is good at least to my ears, so it would take a long time indeed to hit a goal. :D
Dan
Jun 25, 2006 04:53 pm lol, well, in my defense, tadpui, i'm going to start claiming that my fully-finished three uncle dude songs "count." just so that it looks live i've made some progress here.
so weird. those UD songs are written in 5-10 minutes--'ghosts and ****' was created in one spontaneous take in a basement with the band. on the other end of the spectrum, my more serious songs simply never get finished at all.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 26, 2006 11:21 am in my experience, there's no sure way of getting a song out. some people wait, then blast out some good stuff. some people sit down and crank on the handle (so to speak) until some type of product comes out. Different ways work for different people.
I'm thinking that as many types of music are out there, there's as many ways of writing something useful.
I do like the idea of this, though (IMM). I'm terrible at procrastinating with creative writing, so this excercise could really jostle me into more productive work.
Actually, it was this type of methodology that got the HRC promo written. The copy came right away, but the music part I had to sit down, and work at it, until stuff came out worth using.
Jun 26, 2006 02:49 pm well, here's the link to the book
www.amazon.com/gp/product...ce&n=283155
the book gives an overview. i plan to try this as soon as a window opens up.
you know, i've been listening to a lot of music lately, sometimes hours a day. it's great because when i shut the headphones off and go do something else, i start hearing novel music in white noise and also little riffs seem to just spontaneously pop into my mind. it can be annoying, but its also great, when you have to get up on the edge of sleep to record a little riff into your handheld.
Jun 26, 2006 10:56 pm Wow, great thread gang! I've read a lot about "classisal" composers, and it seems that most (if not all ) of them had some type of system in a similar vein. Tchaikovski (or however you spell it) had a lot to say about being a professional composer, and how he didn't have the luxury of waiting for, or even being , inspired. I have my own method, but I've been moving both my home and my studio and haven't been able to keep up with it lately. I haven't written a note for over a month, and it's really affecting me!
I think I've finally gotten things put together enough to get something down, so I'm really looking foreward to writing some useless crap tomorrow morning - get those floodgates opend back up!
By the way, I used to wait for inspiration too. My first CD clocks in at about 45 minutes and took me 7 years from start to finish! Can't do that anymore!
Jun 26, 2006 11:57 pm Ouch 7 years lol...I'm on the same inspiration train that takes forever to get to its destination. I will most likely be trying this immersion business. But right now I am learning notation so I will wait until after that. Right now my writing process is a very botched system of misaligned, raw MIDI file ideas all saved in different projects...
Jun 27, 2006 06:25 am I am a prolific songwriter by most peoples standards...and the funny thing is they only hear about 1/4 of what I actually write. The main reason is that I follow a structure similar to the "forced songwriting" sessions. I force myself to write a bunch of songs (about 5-10 a week for almost 5 years now!!! holy ****, I just did the math...) and then I eventually assemble what I consider to be GOOD songs from bits and pieces of the song sketches. I have hundreds of CD's (and tapes...hehe) of songs and ideas. I just recorded a new album with my band Controlled Chaos (controlledchaosonline.net) and I used sections that were almost a decade old!!! Anyway, great thread forty!!
Jun 27, 2006 12:46 pm My consensus is that life is about balance and so is song writing. This will be a bit hypocritical coming from me but I think using the immersion method to start the writing engine and then gradually converting back to more structure may be the wisest use of one's time. In other words, dealing 50 pounds of crap for one ripe tomato gets old. Eventually, it seems that having a 20 to 40% keep ratio on written material over a 1 to 10% ratio would be the way to roll .! ?
I also have noticed that a fairly accomplished piano player tends to have a distinct advantage over other types of musicians/producers in efficiency of the writing process. Man I wish I wouldn't have quit piano lessons when I was 7 only to pick up drums at the age of 13 !!
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 27, 2006 03:52 pm as a drummer I know the feeliong there carbonic... melody... hmm... thats sort of like rythem right? :)
Izzy Dutch'The Flying Dutchman'Member
Since: Jan 11, 2006
Jul 10, 2006 11:22 am I read a Keith Richards interview somewhere from the early 90's. He says that basically he sees himself as an "antenna" who recieves songs/ideas. He says they already excist and are out there and he's just recieving it. He said if you think like that you won't ever have a writersblock. He said a writersblock is b*llsh*t cause if you've written 1 song you can write a 1000. He also said that usually he starts playing guitar, is bored and decides to go thru a Muddy Waters or Buddy Holly songbook to learn things. And then after a few hours he'll suddenly picks up something interesting of his own and works it out.
For myself I've discovered that when I play a several hours of guitar each day and I'm really into it ideas will come out of nowhere. If I play alot I kinda like get into the 'guitar world' again and ideas will come easily and fast. And then I just write them down so I kinda have a musical bank where I can pull an idea and work it out whenever I'm in the mood for it. I never sit down and try to write it doesn't work for me.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jul 10, 2006 11:45 am Hmmm, this is interesting. I will give it a shot, I only have one problem. I never took lessons, can't read notes and honestly have no idea what I'm playing when I do. I think all 20 of my songs would sound very similar :)
For me to write anything with more detail takes a long time of searching out the note I can hear in my head or finding that oddball chord that adds the mood.
Anyway, I'm game for giving it a go though.
Jul 11, 2006 12:38 am you know, the more i think about it, the more this idea seems like a huge pain in the ***.
i compromised today and set the goal to fix the prechorus section of a song i really want to complete. i allotted the entire day, and maybe because i felt as if i had the whole day and i would not give up until it worked, i was able to come up with something in 20 minutes. this will now allow me to finish this song (barring possible timing problems i need to figure out how to program: the damn time signatures change.)
it was interesting, though. the change that made it work came out of left field. i was thinking of the prechorus as a solid unit. suddenly i got the idea to treat it as two sections, one clean and one distorted, and now it works. so thats one of those rare flashes of insight, i guess. i dont seem to often have those when it comes to structure, but i attribute this one to two things: becoming suddenly angry at someone in my life, and wearing sunglasses when i sat back down.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jul 11, 2006 06:08 pm I tried it, I came out with one good song. I recorded it extremely sloppy on purpose as it's got an old school punk feel. But yeah, I wrote the song in about 10 minutes and am pretty pleased. It's simple and dumb, but in my eyes an extremely fun listen.
I'll mix it down tonight and post it.
1+1=11Member
Since: Jan 03, 2007
Jan 03, 2007 03:55 am I just joined this group so I could make this comment. The IMM sounds like fun. It seems a sure sign that if you were writing with so much gusto about doing the project, but then dropped it before it even began, that the 20 song game is just what you need. By imagining it to be a waste of time you mentally shut yourself down before you even tried it (the opposite of creating). This is just what was talked about in the book. You get psyched on a song but then before you can finish it, negative outcomes are imagined and paralysis ensues.
I just bought the book in question and maybe these lodges are giant waste of time but the exercise of actually finishing what I start is the real exercise and maybe it will actually pay off into more accomplished songwriting. (Members of Sleepy Time Gorilla Museum and Cake are in the original IMM club).
Today I photocopied the Rules of Play, wrote out some more explanation, put them in envelopes I decorated and then put them in the mail boxes of the song writer friends I have.
I keep ya posted on how it goes.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jan 03, 2007 02:01 pm last new years, i decided that i was going to write one verse a week for all of 2006. I ended up missing about 4 to 5 weeks, but I wrote alot. I got several very, very good songs, and quite a few poor ones and a bunch of spare verses with no songs to go to. But overall, I think it is a very worthwhile endeavor to get your mind moving.
Jan 03, 2007 03:44 pm i never got around to doing it. i seem to require other real-life pals to play the game who are serious about it.
i've done this sort of immersion thing before, even before i heard of the idea. variants of it. it's a tricky thing. whatever keeps you from finishing things in the first place seems to still be there whenever you try to get serious and just go for pure output. the drive/motivation always seems to end after about a week. it's not like the method itself 'gets you over' that tendency. for that you need something else, and probably it's a community of participants.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jan 04, 2007 02:23 pm An example of just letting the words flow:
It's a God awful small affair
To the girl with the
mousey hair,
But her mummy is yelling, "No!"
And her
daddy has told her to go,
But her friend is no where to be
seen.
Now she walks through her sunken dream
To the
seats with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the
silver screen,
But the film is sadd'ning bore
For
she's lived it ten times or more.
She could spit in
the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on
Sailors
Fighting in the dance hall.
Oh man!
Look at those cavemen go.
It's the freakiest
show.
Take a look at the lawman
Beating up the wrong
guy.
Oh man!
Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show.
Is there life on
Mars?
There's got to be something to it....
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jan 04, 2007 02:27 pm And, I'm sure....
Dalai llama lama puss puss
Stella marls missa nobis
Miss a dinner miss shapiro
Shampoos pot-pot pinkies pampered
Movement hampered like at christmas
Ha-ha isnt life a circus
Round in circles like the archers
Always stiff or always starchy
Yes its happening and its fattening
And its all that we can get into the show.
Ten points to anyone who can identify....
I shall be duly impressed.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jan 04, 2007 10:51 pm I have no idea what you're doing there TallChap... it's like writing in tongues, and is, for some reason, quite disturbing for me to read . I'm not even sure if I want to understand whats going on there .
Might make a great answering machine mesage, though ! = p
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Jan 04, 2007 11:21 pm Brian Eno - Miss Shapiro but dont be too impressed or quick to hand out points, I just used yahoo. :)
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jan 05, 2007 11:09 am Clever man. Ten points for your resourcefulness. Spend them wisely! By the way, the '801' version is killer. Google that one for a supergroup.
The idea, Hue, is that some of the big stars have not just stuck with the idea of perfecting things, and used lyrics that have come more as a stream of conciousness rather than as traditional songwriting. Magic can, and does happen from these things.
Although, there were probably some really awful ones that hit the round file.
Bowie and Eno disturbing?
Really?
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jan 05, 2007 04:49 pm Quote:
Magic can, and does happen from these things.
This is true, that much I can understand... just those words in the context displayed, threw me a bit... weird, even from my perspective .
[quote] Bowie and Eno disturbing?
Really? [/quote]
It could happen .; )
Apr 30, 2007 04:21 pm I haven't done it yet but my wife bought the book for me.
I have had severe writers block for pretty much the last 3 years and really cant seem to complete anything. I also have an exaggerated version of "not good enough". I don't know how many things I have trashed due to this.
For some reason my brain analyzes what I do the way I analyze the music I listen to. If i don't get the same feeling from my own music that I get from my favorite songs...I trash it. Seeing as how pretty no artist is too psyched about there own stuff..this presents a problem.
I have some faith some of the exercises in the book may help me get passed that. (hopefully)
Anyhow...
This book is really nice because it gives you ideas as far as how to approach writing when you feel like you cant (like myself).
Also, it on some parts re-iterates things you already know or have been told. Why is that a good thing? Well, its kind of like going to a counselor and they ask you "well what do you think you should do". Sometimes we know the answers but need to hear it to validate it.
I recommend the book. Even for people that arent as paralyzed creatively as I am; it does give some great ideas for the writing process.
Thats my 2 scents
-Lyman17
Apr 30, 2007 05:26 pm wow lyman, you explain the exact problem i suffer from, to a 'T,' in your post. the only reason i haven't bought the book yet is because it seemed like what i pretty much do when i tell myself 'ok this week, i'll write a new song every night.' i just refuse to finish a thing i dont like. so each night i start one and then leave it, then start another, etc. i dunno--the book pretty much feels like my state of mind AS i FIRST get psyched about the 'one song per night' plan. and i've seen how that attitude falls apart. so unless the book comes with the voice of a guy yelling at you or encouraging you or something, i don't know if the process would be much different than what i usually do. i should probably look into the book again, though, as this writers block is by now beyond ridiclous.
Apr 30, 2007 06:03 pm I was skeptical too.
The cool thing this book does is it keep re-iterating the fact you aren't going for perfection. It says that you can even take random noise and make it a collage for the 20 song exercise.
They even say...just go and make bad music...intentionally..just do it. They are trying to show that its all a frame of mind. Whn we are "just messing around" we can play a million things. When we sit down to "serious" writing....we choke.
It makes alot of sense. it eve gives a compendium in the back chapter of all sorts of method for getting started on a song and how to brainstorm (different methods). its really very cool.
I mean think about it (i know it applies to me)...how many times have you sat down and made up some BS song that was totally stupid and meant to be stupid and funny around a friend or sang a melody in soem amusing voice with funny lyrics you made up on the spot. Its easy to do. They are trying to reprogram yourself to just do things and not think about polishing a song and all that; but to just jam.
They suggest not making lyrics and music at the same time and when you do...just use BS lyrics to make a vocal melody....then fill in words later.
All in all, its inexpensive and I have gotten my moneys worth IMO. Just to think free'er and not be AS frustrated is a blessing.
One thing I thought was funny is they say that even when you just mess around and make "non serious" music that you will still create good things because your wall comes down due to you telling yourself it is "just messing around" but your ability is still there but this time uninhibited.
-Lyman
Apr 30, 2007 08:21 pm yeah, i know. my joke band 'uncle dude' never experiences writer's block. we create songs in about ten minutes, and to me most of them seem good and catchy. since that band is ridiculous and happy, i free myself up to use more major chords and progressions that i might reject when trying to write seriously. so a lot of times what i'll do is write as x-17, the uncle dude keyboardist, and then if i really like the results, occasionally i will turn the resultant joke song into a real song and i will then have two versions of it.
writing bad music is my specialty. but i shudder at the idea of spending 20 minutes on a sound collage. i mean, you gotta be excited about what you're doing on some level, don't you? when things get too random, i get frustrated. that's what made me learn music theory in the first place.
maybe i'll take another look at that book though.
Jan 02, 2008 05:20 am I purchased the book and I think it's great. Should you use this method all the time...no... it can be very time consuming. It is fun to try and push yourself to write 20 songs in a 12 hour marathon writing session. It's about breaking through the self imposed rules & barriers we place on ourselves. <br/> <br/> Also when they say 20 songs, think of it as a sketch instead of a finished song. After having completed 5 of these sessions I have about 10-12 "songs" that are worth fleshing out and revising. It's also a great way to practice your craft even if 80% of the "songs" you write don't see the light of day. Works best if you strip down to just a piano or a guitar and either a click track or drum loop. Just enough chordal & melodic content to capture the core of the song. Then move on. It can be quite addictive when you get into it though. As a matter of fact I'm about due for an all day session....hmmm....thinking friday....
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jan 02, 2008 05:26 am This is how my new album is going to be written.
I'm gonna call it "immersion"
Mar 22, 2012 11:55 pm Im gonna try this next weekend I have had the book for a couple of years. Some of my best ideas come from this method. I have never done 20 in 12 hours I tried to do like 4 in two hours or or 1 in 30 mins about 20 divided by 12. For me if I am pressed for time I stop analyzing the song to death before it even reaches the chorus!
I also need a way to start developing the music that I like into a more complete version. In the book there is actually a game for that too.
Somehow turning writing into a silly game shuts up that inner critic really fast.
Tim NUh, at least one more time . . .Member
Since: Feb 07, 2007
Mar 23, 2012 12:45 am Hmmm . . . how about the irony of this old thread on writer's block? The whole therapeutic forced song-writing idea sounds like BS to me.
Mar 23, 2012 04:13 am I remember reading that a similar method was used to create some songs from The Blue Album by Weezer.
Mar 23, 2012 08:43 am This thread has to be one of the most fascinating things I've read in a very long time. I've only written a song or 2, and I beleive they were crap. I think that self confidence would also have to play a part in the process. I like the idea of brainstorming as a group too.
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Mar 23, 2012 07:49 pm Ahhh, I miss the Tadpui. Awesome music out of that guy.
Mar 23, 2012 10:10 pm Try it dude
