Just in case you want to continue....
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Posted on Jun 10, 2007 10:03 pm
VCRobP
Member Since: May 10, 2007
I guess it was decided that the religious thread be deep sixed. Thats cool and I totally understand why...
BUT...if anyone that was involved wants to keep the questions coming to me and wishes to maintain the train of thought that was in process please feel free to email me via my profile email and I will be glad to keep, what I thought was a very respectful exchange, going!
Now back to your regularly scheduled program!
:))
p.s.
Please dont respond with any thoughts from the other thread but please email me and I will be glad to take as much time as you wish to investigate privately one on one.
Peace & Grace,
Rob
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Jun 10, 2007 10:11 pm I 86'd the last thread because one dude came in here as his first post and left his post on how to save our souls.
I am a religious man myself, but it was against the rules of the forum. The thread did not get hostile, but those can very easily. It was simply the spammy nature of the start of the thread that was ultimately it's demise.
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 10, 2007 10:31 pm :)) No problem my man!
Like I said above, my door of knowledge (scarry thought hahaha) or as much as my little brain can hold is always open to anyone wanting to dig into this stuff. I'm always open to hearing any questions or thoughts to debate.
Peace!
Jun 11, 2007 12:59 am i wouldnt mind discussing it, but i agree with db that it was a dangerous thread. i was gonna stay out. but rob, do you have the original post still?
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 11, 2007 06:26 am Bummer no I dont :( But I remember the premise and most of what was discussed and shared. Email me and we can take it from where ever you wish to begin :)
Peace
Jun 11, 2007 06:47 am These topics can be discussed on the board...you don't need to go underground. My issue, as stated, was that the original thread, from somebody I never saw before, was started as religious spam, THAT is why it went down. Whenever anyone's first topic is something completely off the music topic, it often gets 86'd...because it's almost always spam. Hell even if it is on topic and it'as for a music contest, songwriting contest, how to get famous quick, etc, it often gets 86'd.
Jun 11, 2007 01:23 pm so...we have to ask things like 'which mic would god use?' and get into it more in that way, eh?
haha
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 11, 2007 01:53 pm Should I use a Mac or PC: What Would Jesus Do?
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 11, 2007 02:00 pm Jesus would use Linux :)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 11, 2007 02:19 pm Ha! good point!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 11, 2007 10:46 pm I'm not even going to touch the part about Linux. Although, you never know.
Jun 12, 2007 04:36 am ok....rob, me and you are cool, and i'm open to discussion, (AND i welcome that 'i found god' moment) and to get to specifics, i must tell you, my own personal "bet" with god, is i want a bolt of lightning to strike me deaf or dead or somewhere inbetween (sp?) but more to my point...do you believe that an all knowing, all loving, and all powerful god, could condemn a "good karma" person to rot in eternity for simply questioning the existence of "The" creator? if i was the 'father' of this child, i'd be prowd.
if you take the THREE characteristics (sp?) of "God" which are "All knowing (onmnicient), All Powerful (omnipotent), and all loving god, simply looking at the past 2500 years (before, during, and after the bible) you can't show any evidence of all three characteristics (sp?) co-existing at ANY time during human history......let me explain...
if he loves all AND knows all....surely, he hasn'd shown any evidence of being all powerful enough to help all those in need.
and IF he indeed was all powerful enough to make any change, and he KNEW everything, then he must not love enough to save all the poor children that no control over the environment/circumstances they were born into...but it sill happens
but, what if he WAS powerful and loved all, well i guess he must have not have known of what's goin' on in the world today.\
you cannot show any evidence of all three co-existingly at the same time (atleast not in this reality we live in)
why has the "holy land" been in a constant state of war, and turmoil and battle for the past 2000+years? as far as written record goes. what kind of "peace" does that represent??!!
religion, when practiced safely is perfectly ok and safe, it serves it's purpose to help humanity get along just fine.....BUT it all goes down the drain when ppl start making their own inturpretations and INSISTING on their version of things (which, i kinda am guilty of now) being right.
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 12, 2007 07:11 am WYD...I will answer here but would rather you email me any further questions just so this doesnt turn into a mess for DB and Noize2U.
Here goes...
“Sometimes the problem of evil is put to the Christian in the form of a complex question, “If God is good, then He must not be powerful enough to deal with all the evil and injustice in the world since it is still going on. If He is powerful enough to stop wrongdoing, then He Himself must be an evil God since He’s not doing anything about it even though He has the capability. So which is it” Is He a bad God or a God that’s not all powerful?” Though many writers in the Bible complained about suffering and evil....the Scriptures make it plain that God did not create the world in the state in which it is now, but evil came as a result of the selfishness of man. The Bible says that God is a God of love and He desired to create a person and eventually a race that would love Him. But genuine love cannot exist unless freely given through free choice and will and thus man was given the choice to accept God’s love or to reject it. The choice made the possibility of evil become very real. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, they did not choose something God created, but, by their choice, they brought evil into the world. God is neither evil nor did He create evil. Man brought evil upon himself by selfishly choosing his own way apart from God’s way.”
So blaming God for suffering and evil in the world is like saying "You shouldn't have given us a choice Lord. You should have made us love you and forced us to obey you." But that would not have been real love. Would you want to force someone to love you? When you walk(ed) down the aisle, and say (said) "I do", what would it feel like if you were told you had no choice but to love the person and marry him/her or else? God has been very fair and righteous to give us a choice about loving Him. We, unfortunately, made the decision to go our own way rebelling against God. That rebellion has taken the form of different religions, idol worship, new age philosophy, man thinking he is his own god etc... So now we have to live with the consequences of choosing sin instead of Him. Our rebellion and broken relationship with God has brought a tremendous amount of evil and suffering in the world.
That broken relationship can only be redeemed individually and collectively by coming to the cross and allowing Christ's sacrifice and suffering cover us if you will through our acceptance and confession of him as lord. This is the reason why Christ was sent into the world as a man and lived blamelessly & without sin and was slaughtered as a sacrificial offering for all of mans sins (thus creating a second choice for man to be saved). So to say that God left us down here to our own devices like an absent-T-landlord is also a crock. No greater love can be displayed than to have a shepard lay his life down for his sheep...Christ layed His life down for all of us and through His "documented" resurrection displayed the power of the gospels and the bible to be The Word of God.
Let me use a really stupid analogy...
Now that we are in a fallen world....Think of a car wash. On one side is me and you (the dirty car) and on the other side is the holy presense of God allmighty. In our dirty car state of being we cant wash ourselves or scrub ourselves free of sin good enough no matter how hard we try that would be acceptable to God. Thats why we must go through the wash (Christs blood that was shed for us) to get perfectly clean enough in the eyes of God to be worthy of being in Gods presense. Christ himself who is also part of the triune Godhead went through tremendous pain and suffering of unimaginable proportions for all of us. That selfless act of big time love and laying himself down for us was needed to restore the "choice" factor for us to be called back into a restored relationship with God the Father.
When men "choose" to reject Christ as Lord and by choice refuse to ignore any calls made by God to have them brought back into that restored relationship with Him, by choice a person is rejecting God Himself. Thats not Gods fault. The blame for an eternal reality separated from God in Hell is ours.
Likewise, the absolute joy and peace that we all as men desire, living in a beautiful eternal world that is to come, that is pure and perfect is the reward and eventual reality for those that "choose" Christ!
We as sinful men can not define the parameters on how God operates and who we think He should grant salvation to. He doesnt conform to us my friend, we must follow His path!
Jun 12, 2007 08:27 am It does seem WYD is blaming religion, or God, (or at least doing so in the interest of conversation) for issues that are actually the fault of man.
Yes, lots of bad things have been done and continue to be done in the name of God (or Allah, or name-your-deity)...that is not the same as commanded by God or with God's blessing...religion can make people nuts, the nuts that typically do these kind of things have started meandering from the real message of their religion a while beforehand and entered the radical sector of the religion.
Few recognized religions are violent by nature.
Jun 12, 2007 11:27 am i think you got me wrong...i never said "it's god's fault" or anything leading to that....i was saying "looking at the world as it is, there's no evidence of an omnipresent, omniscient, and benovolent godhead"....i wasn't tryin't to point a finger at anyone's fault as to how it got there....i'm just making a simple observation.
Quote:
God did not create the world in the state in which it is now
maybe, but he allowed it to happen, which is quite sadistic if he indeed is all knowing, all loving, and all powerful.
Quote:
Think of a car wash. On one side is me and you (the dirty car)
ok the whole "born into sin" thing, i think is crap...
that's like beein' born into debt through Bank of America, and then Bank of America saying "you can rid yourself of this debt, just do A then B" anyone in their right mind would stand up to them and tell them to kiss off....a baby is born into complete and total innocense and then commits his first sin afterward, not the other way around...you simply cannot come into this world guilty.
Quote:
living in a beautiful eternal world that is to come, that is pure and perfect is the reward and eventual reality for those that "choose" Christ!
i will quote myself here "why has the "holy land" been in a constant state of war, and turmoil and battle for the past 2000+years? as far as written record goes. what kind of "peace" does that represent??!!"
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 12, 2007 11:40 am Wow, I wouldn't even know what to say about all this without offending so I'll just keep my mouth shut. Let's just say I have my own belief.
Jun 12, 2007 11:42 am that's all good...i like to think i'm articulating myself in a non-offensive way
Jun 12, 2007 11:47 am Well, it's not offensive to have and state your own beliefs, the offensive part is when one starts insulting others beliefs while doing so...ya know?
Jun 12, 2007 11:50 am *edited above post* better?
Jun 12, 2007 11:52 am WYD,
While I in a different place than you are, I feel that you have indeed made your beliefs known in a non-offensive way. I'm not offended by what you state. In fact, some of those very same thoughts creep into my head every once in a while.
I don't really think that faith can be explained. You believe what you believe. You and me, WYD, we're not that different after all.
Jun 12, 2007 12:04 pm What WYD said.
What Jim said.
Thanks for saying it.
Jun 12, 2007 12:12 pm thanks herb, again, i'm not tryin' to change anyones beliefs, this is more of a "self excersize" in explaining myself and learning others views.
Jun 12, 2007 12:20 pm Right, yep. As I've stated before, it's pointless to think you're going to change anyone's beliefs on these topics. But I have a lot of respect for people who aren't afraid to express opinions that are unpopular.
Take my Communist stepsons for example. While I believe Marxism is obviously a failed and nonworkable concept (though it looks great on paper), I can't help but have a little admiration for the boys, for their attempts to thumb their noses at the status quo. Rebellion is a healthy part of the human condition.
Jun 12, 2007 12:28 pm Oh, WYD, I wasn't saying your comments were offensive, I was speaking very generically about how to state opinions and not insult others while doing so...didn't mean to imply you were...it was more aimed at BH to state his opinion, as I'd be curious to know them as long as it doesn't involve a criticism of others in the process...
Quote:
Rebellion is a healthy part of the human condition.
True, true...Healthy rebellion is anyway, some people just rebel for the sake of rebelling, which is just stupid.
Jun 12, 2007 12:28 pm i'm not one to thumb my nose (or perhaps i am, now that i think about it)....it just frustrates me deeply to see we (humanity) are nowhere near our full potential as far as harmony, creativity, technology, and understanding of our surroundings, and i view religion as the singlemost thing holding us back from reaching that potential as a species. (sorry to offend)...the proverbial 'ball and chain' comes to mind. i think we've outgrown religion...it's served it's purpose.
Jun 12, 2007 12:43 pm I disagree, religion is one of the things, but there are loads of issues that divide people...any time you mess with people personal beliefs, or bring them into play, tho, you are always going to get emotional reactions...and really, I don't think it's a bad thing...some of the stuff radicals do is bad, but the diversity in beliefs isn't bad in and of itself.
It'll be a cold day before I ever feel I have outgrown my maker tho...
Jun 12, 2007 01:00 pm Quote:
some people just rebel for the sake of rebelling, which is just stupid.
"While it is true that age doesn't guarantee wisdom, it is also true that youth precludes it."
Herb Utsmelz 2007
Jun 12, 2007 01:04 pm bahahahaha, quote of the day, right there.
Jun 12, 2007 01:08 pm wow, good quote indeed!
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 12, 2007 04:21 pm WYD,,
Ok..you have innocense yes (but make no mistake about it we are NOT born little gods or perfect without sin. If we were born without a sin nature then we wouldnt eventually sin and this whole discussion would be over) and then you have the age of accountability. Even within the Christian community you will hear differences of opinion on this one (and thats ok. Its a non-essential) and there are plenty of reasons to think one way or another and again thats ok.
First you have one group sharing the belief that if a baby dies that it will go to heaven simply because he/she never reached the age of accountability to come to a conclusion on choosing Christ or not. The second group feels there is plenty of evidence in scripture to say that God has foreknowledge of what you would have chosen and therefore renders proper judgement. I fall somewhere in the middle of these camps as I think that an all knowing powerful God can do whatever he wants with his creation that will bring about the greatest glory for His kingdom.
God is not sadistic...again re-read what I posted above as it clearly defines why we are living in the conditions we are in. Have you ever taken part in an intervention? I have. Sometimes you have to let those you love dearly wallow around in their own poo and turn your back on them for them to finally "get it" and pull their collective heads out of their backside and choose the right path.
Regarding the Holy Land...I think you are getting what I'm refferring to as Heaven as a whole with the current state of the Holy Land of Israel. The bible says that the holy land will be a continual cup of trembling. Thats not God's fault. Israel has turned away and came back to God sooo many times throughout history. As a result they were chastised and punished accordingly as well. Ever wonder why the Jewish race has been and still is so persecuted? Its because satan hates the race that brought forth the redeemer.
When you look at the world through biblically spiritual googles you really start to see things in a way that totally makes sense as to why stuff happens the way it does.
Jun 12, 2007 06:38 pm I like to keep out of this stuff (though I stand with WYD generally). It just gives me a chance to use one of my own favorite quotes.
From Mr Bono of U2, Ireland
"Organized religion is the absolute enemy of faith"
It my opinion that the various religions and churches have done more to turn me off the idea of god than anything else.
Jun 12, 2007 06:42 pm The day I take Bono's words for anything more than self-indulgent pseudo-intellectualism is the day I take myself out to do the world a favor.
I do have to say though, that is the closest thing to sense he has ever made. Never mistake religion for faith.
Jun 12, 2007 07:10 pm ahh good point.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 12, 2007 08:07 pm OK, I'm jumping in to reply to something forty was asking in the other thread.
He asked me to explain my statement that even an atheist has faith or "a faith" in something.
It may not be a religious faith intentionally, but it is a faith none the less.
Take for example our buddy WYD here. He is working on a project that will pay him well when it is completed. But there is a deadline he must meet in order to be payed in full. What is going through his head, besides the logistics of it all. He is thinking to himself, "I know I can do this if I just put my mind to it."
In a round about way that is a faith based statement, is it not? He is affirming with himself or whom ever might be listening that he will indeed finish on time and produce a good product.
He can also have faith that all parties who need to play their part will do so and aid in the completion of the project.
What drives him to complete the task at hand? Money, yes, but the faith in himself and others. And somewhere in that faith he is asking whatever he believes in to help make sure he can do it without fail.
That my friends is a faith no matter which way you slice it.
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 12, 2007 08:47 pm :)) haha something on which we can agree!
I have always said that I dont let religion get in the way of my relationship.
Its funny you mention that Tonyoci... Christ himself blasted the "super spiritual dudes" of the times telling them that they were hypocrits putting way to much emphasis on the legalistic things of the "religion" than putting the emphasis on the intimacy and growing a deeper and more personal "relationship" with God that should be the focal point of ones worshiping.
Jun 12, 2007 08:49 pm yeah, what he said!
just cuz I couldn't say it better meself.
Jun 12, 2007 10:16 pm See this supports my theory that Bono is in fact Jesus, and that Jesus was simply the Bono of his time (just kiddin').
This whole thing by Saint Bono was continued with a discussion of how the purest demonstration of faith is the love between a man and his god and that all the pomp and pagentry of churches, especially the Catholic dogma he was raised in just gets in the way.
Once in a while I visit a friend Baptist church, now that's fun worshiping, though it tends to go on to long for a person like me to last it out.
Jun 12, 2007 10:21 pm Bono is one of the huge hypocrites of our time...the man is a lying POS in my opinion. Talks a lot that he doesn't walk. He's kind of a Robin Hood of our generation.
My cousin is a baptist minister...we have had many "discussions" in our day...in my opinion, there are few more judgmental, arrogant religions that I have ever personally known...Catholicism just, well, sorry but I have to laugh at the hypocracy of that faith sometimes for personal reasons that are too long winded and boring to bother with here.
Of course, today one can't judge an entire branch of religion by one church or minister as so many vary so greatly from congregation to congregation...
I am very happy in my ELCA church. WHile I have my issues with the synod, on the whole, it's the closest I have found to my personal beliefs that I am confortable enough to allow my kids to learn from their sunday school and whatevernot.
Jun 12, 2007 11:18 pm Catholics Rule! :D
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 12, 2007 11:19 pm Yeah i hear ya db. Lutherans can be very liberal. Same as my church the Presbyterian-USA denomination. They have some liberal views that just make me boiling mad with biblical anger. Fortunately the Reverend at my church seems to be more conservative and is trying to stand the ground upholding biblical truth and not cowering to the liberal nut balls who want to wizz all over God's word with their own versions of absolute truth.
Another saying I have is...
Liberalism + Moral Relativism = The Death of Biblical Truth.
I plan on being a fighter for God's truth and if nobody likes it in my church then to bad...
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 13, 2007 12:00 am I think my head is going to explode.
Jun 13, 2007 10:28 am hey....preacher.....leave those kids alone!
Jun 13, 2007 10:36 am Quote:
Liberalism + Moral Relativism = The Death of Biblical Truth
In concept I agree with that, definitely with relative morality...it's wrong or it ain't, period.
Liberalism is a different matter, the Bible is beautiful in it's vagueness at time, it doesn't dictate every aspect of everything. Liberalism has it's place (jeezuz, did I say that?!) tolerance, forgiveness and understanding are (or should be) I huge part of faith...not the fire and brimstone attitudes of old-school hypocritical churches that talk the talk but don't walk the walk...
Jun 13, 2007 10:57 am Well I'll stick with Bono as my god :)
I'm not sure where your anger towards Bono comes from ? I read a lot of music related books and he really comes across as a genuine guy. A poser, big ego maybe, but he's married to the woman he met in high school, has strong relationships with school friends (I read their books) and does a lot for "the world". He has his flaws but don't we all.
Jun 13, 2007 11:18 am It's not "anger" perse, it's more apathetic. Not really worth my time to get into.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 13, 2007 11:27 am Quote:
cowering to the liberal nut balls who want to wizz all over God's word with their own versions of absolute truth
is it just me, or is this very insulting to people who might have a different view than yours.
Seems these threads can work well, when we're not insulting others.
my .02$us
And on another note, I don't think organized religion is the absolute enemy of faith. Pride is. And under pride's umbrella: greed. Which, seems to be failings of man, not religion itself.
But I do agree, that organized religion has taken some very odd turns, from what seems like Jesus' clear message.
Jun 13, 2007 11:34 am There are conservative nutballs as well as liberal, so it goes both ways there...libs forcing their thought police on us is as wrong as cons forcing God on libs...
The people with the most radical ideas of forcing their thoughts/beliefs on everybody are the ones to be most concerned about...
Sadly, those are the very types of people that usually run of office...
I have my beliefs, I am content with them, and raising my children with those teachings, and others, so they can make an educated decision themselves when that time comes.
Jun 13, 2007 12:23 pm Quote:
it's wrong or it ain't, period
i don't think it's so black and white...
is it wrong to kill your child to save your village? say you're hiding from 'the enemy' in a hut...one peep and they will slaughter everyone inside...your baby has a cold so you cover it's mouth. now you know it's certian death for you and everyone around you if your child coughs...whadda you do....me, i'd smother it and make a new one later. how "wrong" is that?
one of those 'grater good' type scenarios.
Jun 13, 2007 12:58 pm murder is wrong. very simple.
that being said, I couldn't say which decision I'd make...
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jun 13, 2007 01:25 pm Kinda along the lines of what pjk, said, what it really comes down to, for me, is this:
You believe what you believe (not talking to anyone specific here), and I believe what I believe. You can't REALLY prove what you believe, and I can't REALLY prove what I believe. We all have faith in that which we believe. Now, I say, let me believe what I believe, and I'll let you believe what you believe and we won't belittle or intimidate each other because we believe different things. As long as your beliefs don't harm anyone and overall contribute to society, I'm all for you believing what you believe even if it's not exactly what I believe (and knowing my beliefs, it's probably pretty different). Hopefully you can except that I'm going to believe something different than you. Discussions like this one are good, as they allow people to explore their beliefs and possibly be open to new ideas, but lets not preach at each other (not saying that anyone here is, just talking in general) and be so prideful that our personal truths should be the truths for everybody else. Cuz really, that's about the time when I start getting the urge to slap a fool (gets B. A. Baracus mohawk primed!)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 13, 2007 01:41 pm Thanks coolo, that was my intent. Not to speak my mind, but that everyone needs to be respectful, and not demeaning to others, just because other's opinions are not their own.
I could certainly look at a few people's ideas on here from time to time and call them names, but I only do in my head =).
There's a Buddhist idea: As long as your direction is based on compassion, then follow it well.
Jun 13, 2007 01:47 pm well...i know i've heard a few people advocating capital punishment...where does that fall?? and war?
Jun 13, 2007 01:51 pm Quote:
As long as your direction is based on compassion, then follow it well.
Good as a rule, but I think even that to the furthest degree could have a negative impact on society...
I also very much agree with coolo, as long as one isn't hurting others, or society at large, they are obviously worthy of some respect...that being said, I have noticed in modern society (not as a whole, but often) everybody's opinions and beliefs are worthy of respect, everybody is tolerant and kind until somebody dares mention the Bible...as soon as even a meer mention of the Bible people scream that it's getting "shoved down their throats".
My local public school has support groups and various student run groups for kids of alternative lifestyles, religions and races, but our neighbors daughter was refused school resources (the use of a room before classes start) for a "prayer group" she wanted to start for her and her friends to meet before school and share a prayer becuase the school "can't endorse a religion". Yet the Muslim kids get a place to do their stuff...
WTF? It's not uncommon either as it turns out...
Jun 13, 2007 01:52 pm Quote:
well...i know i've heard a few people advocating capital punishment
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man should his blood be shed.
As far as war, I got nothin...it sucks, it's wrong, but saddly sometimes necessary, necessity does not equal right...
Jun 13, 2007 02:23 pm dB, your neighbor's daughter's school is breaking the law. One phone call from a lawyer should clear that up; or they may relent if someone just reminds them of what the laws actually state.
Here is the law, from a U.S. Department of Education web site:
Organized Prayer Groups and Activities
Students may organize prayer groups, religious clubs, and "see you at the pole" gatherings before school to the same extent that students are permitted to organize other non-curricular student activities groups. Such groups must be given the same access to school facilities for assembling as is given to other non-curricular groups, without discrimination because of the religious content of their expression. School authorities possess substantial discretion concerning whether to permit the use of school media for student advertising or announcements regarding non-curricular activities. However, where student groups that meet for nonreligious activities are permitted to advertise or announce their meetings—for example, by advertising in a student newspaper, making announcements on a student activities bulletin board or public address system, or handing out leaflets—school authorities may not discriminate against groups who meet to pray. School authorities may disclaim sponsorship of non-curricular groups and events, provided they administer such disclaimers in a manner that neither favors nor disfavors groups that meet to engage in prayer or religious speech.
Jun 13, 2007 02:26 pm I know. If my kids gets that runaround, should she choose to do so then, I will be reminding them of that.
Jun 13, 2007 02:56 pm I'm not sure the word "apathetic" and this statement really go hand in hand.
"Bono is one of the huge hypocrites of our time...the man is a lying POS in my opinion. Talks a lot that he doesn't walk. He's kind of a Robin Hood of our generation."
The murder your child scenario is not realistic here and now. The only time we'd now what we can do is when it happens. I can't see many parents being able to kill their child even if it saves a village. The "murder one child to save the other" scenario is much more complex.
Jun 13, 2007 03:01 pm Quote:
The only time we'd now what we can do is when it happens.
I agree with that 110% which is why I glossed over it as quickly as I could...nobody could say they'd do this or that...I'd like to think I'd do things in various situations in life and been proven wrong when faced with it...this redneck neighbor issue of the last year+ has taught me more about myself than I ever wanted to know...
As far as my rant on Bono, well, you got me in a peculiar mood yesterday and I went off more than I typically would...apathy does describe my typical opinion of Bono, that said, this week has not exactly been a typical week...if you have kept up on my ongoing drama, you have to give me that slack room...
Jun 13, 2007 03:20 pm Sorry, I haven't really kept up on the drama and didn't understand properly what I did read. But a quick prayer to Bono can fix anything :)
Jun 13, 2007 03:27 pm I people claim my God is fake... ;-)
Jun 13, 2007 03:34 pm Hey I prayed to Bono when I was hungry and he suggested I go to Quizno's = how's that for cross thread pollination.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 13, 2007 03:59 pm Reminds me of the original Be-Dazzled.
Dudley Moore wants the devil to prove that he's really the devil, and can do things.
So the devil says: go ahead then, make a wish.
Dudley wishes for an ice cream.
The devil walks them downstairs to the street, finds an ice cream vendor, borrows the money from Dudley, and buys Dudley an ice cream.
In the end, that counted as one of his wishes too.
Great movie, that.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 13, 2007 05:00 pm [quote]
Hey I prayed to Bono when I was hungry and he suggested I go to Quizno's... [/quote]
What did you do to deserve divine retribution?! :)
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 13, 2007 05:43 pm I have this strange urge to whistle and sing...
Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...
And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...
If life seems jolly rotten
There's something you've forgotten
And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you're feeling in the dumps
Don't be silly chumps
Just purse your lips and whistle - that's the thing.
And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...
For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin - give the audience a grin
Enjoy it - it's your last chance anyhow.
So always look on the bright side of death
Just before you draw your terminal breath
Life's a piece of ****
When you look at it
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show
Keep 'em laughing as you go
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the right side of life...
(Come on guys, cheer up!)
Always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the bright side of life...
(Worse things happen at sea, you know.)
Always look on the bright side of life...
(I mean - what have you got to lose?)
(You know, you come from nothing - you're going back to nothing.
What have you lost? Nothing!)
Always look on the right side of life...
Jun 13, 2007 05:49 pm Everybody join in....
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Jun 13, 2007 06:21 pm Quote:
..... one peep and they will slaughter everyone inside...your baby has a cold so you cover it's mouth ....
Hey WYD,
Isn't that on an episode of Monkey?
meltdown5Faze 2 StudiosMember
Since: Aug 15, 2005
Jun 13, 2007 06:24 pm I too have the erge to sing and whistle...
This is your Jesus
Jesus was a dinosaur
Sent back in time from space
To stop the rebellion of the pagan droids
From blowing up your face
Jesus used his blaster rays
To defeat the pagan tanks
He barely won that narrow fight
Oh, censored here comes their planes
This is your Jesus
As never known before
This is your Jesus
He was a dinosaur
The pagans tried their air attacks
Jesus tried to fend them off
But the blaster rays drained his energy
So he had to stop and cough
Because Jesus was out of breath
They shot him out of the air
So his magical gnomes of destiny
Had to get their asses out of their chairs
This is your Jesus
As never known before
This is your Jesus
He was a dinosaur
So the gnomes came to his rescue
Because they needed him to lead
So they bombed the censored out of the pagans
Until they finally agreed
But instead of giving Jesus back
The pagans gave them gold
They really wanted to torture him
And from there the gnomes were sold
They put a nail in his left arm
Then jammed one in the right
Jesus cried in agony
And his screams consumed the night
They made him climb to the top of the hill
With the torture on his back
But soon the gnomes spent all their gold
And came back to save his ***
So they beamed him up into the sky
With their mighty gravity beams
And now you can finally see
That your religion is not what it seems.
...yeah, sorry i just saw beerhunter's post and it reminded me of this. Its from a post in the "music and compitision" section. I thought it made for a good laugh.
-melty
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 13, 2007 06:28 pm [quote]Hey WYD,
Isn't that on an episode of Monkey?[/quote]
I know that it was on an episode of M*A*S*H. I remember some lady on a bus smothering her child to keep the child from crying.
Jun 13, 2007 06:36 pm yeah, Hawkeye remembered it as a chicken and in the psychiatrists office it came out as a baby...I remember that one.
M*A*S*H was a great show...
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Jun 13, 2007 06:38 pm yes yes ... but Monkey!
Did you lot get it over yonder?
Jun 13, 2007 06:39 pm Never heard of it.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 13, 2007 06:41 pm [quote]
On the 4th of July, Colonel Potter decided to let several members of the 4077 take the day off for an old fashioned celebration. They went to the beach at Inchon. Inchon was west of Ouijongbu, and most of the fighting was in Kum Song, to the northeast. It was a nice summer day and the beach trip seemed just the thing to break the tension. On the way back to the MASH unit, the bus stopped to pick up some refugees. About a half a mile later; it stopped again, this time to pick up some wounded GIs. "We gotta get this bus into the bushes," one of the GIs said. "There's an enemy patrol coming down the road. Everyone get quiet. Nobody make a sound until they've passed us." The bus was hidden. Inside, everyone grew nervous. Each person sat on the edge of his seat, quietly breathing the tense air; terrified that each breath might be his last. Suddenly, a refugee baby began to wail. "Shhhh," Hawkeye hissed. The child's mother was in despair. She could not quiet the baby. If its sounds attracted the North Koreans, everyone could be killed. Soundlessly, the woman smothered her child.[/quote]
Apparently it was in the very last episode.
Jun 13, 2007 06:43 pm Yes, the other good subplot in the finale was the one with Charles and the Korean musicians. I got a little misty with that one... <sniff>
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 13, 2007 06:52 pm How about the one when Radar announces Colonel Blake was killed in a helicopter crash on the way home? <sniff, sniff>
Great show. Oh ya, what were we talking about again? jk - should have know I'd be the one to take this OT.
Jun 13, 2007 07:50 pm i got that scenario from a radio show called "Radio Lab" it's one of my favorites! NYC's public radio....they explore all kinds of cool stuff and that episode was on morality, and they did play parts of that MASH episode in it.
check it out if you're interested...it's one of the best radio programs ever.
www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 13, 2007 09:51 pm To address WYD's scenario:
1. Killing the Child is wrong.
2. Endangering the Village is Wrong.
therefore greater good does not apply because it is actually "Lesser of Two Evils"... Biblically, all sin is equivalent. Murder is just as bad as consensual sex out side of marriage. therefore being that, biblically, killing the child is no better than killing the entire village the "Right" solution is neither.
The trick of the scenario is that it leads one to believe that those are the only two solutions, which is not the case.
Jun 13, 2007 10:16 pm ok what would be another solution?
Jun 13, 2007 10:18 pm ok i'm thinkin' of
bein' saved by alies or somethin'
killin' all of the enemy with superior ninja skills
the sun explodes
praying (sorry, that was bad taste...but i'm drinkin')
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 13, 2007 10:44 pm well... a couple ones come to mind:
1. Leave the village. :) - really... hiding in a hut in a village under attack is like going upstairs to avoid a killer. :)
1b. the MASH example... an enemy patrol is coming ... solution... run in the opposite direction... even a brisk walk could out run a patrol... when I saw that episode I just wondered why they just didn't turn the bus around and speed off...
2. Make the baby go unconscious. - maybe not very nice... nor pretty to watch... but... honestly... grab the kid by the ankles and spin them in a circle.... works on animals so should also work on people. :)
Jun 13, 2007 11:10 pm 1. that would have to happen before your are in the situation, so technically that's not a solution to the problem because there wouldn't be a problem to begin with.
1b. read 1.
2..hahahah just picturing that in my head made me laugh, but i think that might work....do ppl cough when they're unconcious?
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 13, 2007 11:36 pm db there is a difference between being liberal in the sense of applying justifications and enabling sin and what I think you are refferring to and that is something that I agree with and thats loving the sinner but hating the sin. Instead of recognizing sin and calling it what it is liberals (ie: nut balls) justify it and embrace it. I hate the sin in my own life and I struggle with different things everyday but I dont justify it and call it normal or a lifestyle choice or whatever... I keep trying to overcome it.
Josh McDowell put out a fantastic sermon on moral relativism. Its worth tracking down.
also.. I apply the tag "nutball" to anyone getting liberal with what the Word of God says. I'm not referring to democrat vs republican ideology. I get equally pissed off at anyone messing around with a book that needs no messing around with. It doesnt need reinvented it just needs to be applied.
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 13, 2007 11:39 pm Just curious pjk...do you feel that the above blasphemous pictures and song lyrics are insulting to anyone here that may share a different view?
Jun 13, 2007 11:51 pm awww...come on man...it's Monty Python!
context, my friend, context!
even rape can be funnny (george carlin)
here's one on jesus's brother craig...(it's not too blastphemous)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jun 14, 2007 01:23 am There are a few postulates that I have decided are quintesential to my spiritual growth from the bible. I am sure I will parapharse to a degree.
Seek and you shall find. I preceive this as a life long endevor, not and end of the trail pot holy grail.
It would be easier for you to spoon the ocean into a hole in the sand than understand my plan for you. There is a God and it's not me, or the person next to me. Of God yes.
No man made organization can last forever. Religions are man made. God inspired (for the most part and or hopefully) but so is every human being. This may sound as if I am speaking out against religions. That is not the case. Humans were created social to include their spirituality, hence religions. To infer that there is one perfect religion counters the bible IMHO. When anyone expresses the concept of 'be like me' I shutter. It is obvious to me that creation is not a process of cloning.
Time for bed. The closest to perfect I will ever be..... asleep.
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 14, 2007 06:55 am Spot on Walt!
We are all works in progress! It is a life long process. Christ just said follow me, He didnt say be a Catholic or be a Presbyterian :)) However those churches that do stand firm on all of the entire and complete word of God and is not in the business of picking and choosing that which they feel are the most important things to stand on are in my opinion real "Christ-ian" churches. I dont look or judge by man made brand names. I look for total biblical adherance in a congregation and its leaders.
WYD, I'm not mad or anything about the Monty Python stuff, I was just pointing out that if pjk can call me out for the silly term "nutball" then I was wondering how he felt about the religious chiding. It just goes to my inability to not recognize a double standard of todays "tolerence" and "insensitivity" crap people toss around in every direction in todays culture EXCEPT for when one is taking liberties with Christianity. Thats all!
I dont give two dice what you guys say or post :)) Its not me that your pissing off ;)
Jun 14, 2007 07:53 am I only get angry when it gets mean and nasty. Good conversation and light-hearted picking and goofing is healthy and fun. It's hard though because everybody has a different breaking point when it's not fun, or suddenly the shot drops below the belt.
I think tolerance and political correctness has done more to destroy this culture than anything else. Some things just should not be tolerated.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jun 14, 2007 09:02 am The concept of being politicaly correct is simply sick. It serves no good purpose. Once again we have went too far. To purposely bait someone into anger, shame etc. is one thing, but to limit ones communication to only that which will not offend is insane. It's akin to 1984 good speak. Same with the connetations that the new brand of tolorance carry. Again it has become twisted. Both are being used to avoid having to deal with issues. Nothing good can come of that.
Jun 14, 2007 09:47 am Speaking so as not to offend is admirable in and of itself, the most sad part is how incredibly easy people will be offended at the smallest comment that doesn't jive with their opinions...
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Jun 14, 2007 10:59 am Quote:
Christ just said follow me, He didnt say be a Catholic or be a Presbyterian
... or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or Jewish or ....
Jun 14, 2007 11:03 am Christ will be so outrageously pissed off when he comes back and see's what mankind did with what started as a great framework for a good lifestyle and a good society...
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Jun 14, 2007 11:07 am Quote:
what started as a great framework for a good lifestyle and a good society
When was that then?
Jun 14, 2007 11:25 am The teachings of Christ in the New Testament, how he lived and what he taught continues, to me, to be a wonderful example of understanding, sharing, forgiveness and responsibility. If someone disagrees with that they are simply disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable.
Jun 14, 2007 11:58 am DB that statement is more polite but just as bigoted as many others. Sure I think you're probably right but JC had a lot of strong opinions on stuff that others may not and may not have agreed with.
Jun 14, 2007 12:07 pm I also know people that are of the opinion they drive better drunk...they're wrong. Just because one is entitled to opinions, which they are, doesn't make their opinions correct.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jun 14, 2007 12:48 pm One twist I see in many religions is the concept of the militant follower. Terms like "Christian Soldier", 'Soldjorn' etc allude to this. In Christianity maybe revelations? Beyond some references to Mohamad, I don't recolect any accepted prophet or deity ending their teachings with "now go grab your swards and hack up some heathans!" Obviously you can subtitute a number of designations for heathans in that euphorism.
Ya, I don't think we function too well left unattended.
Jun 14, 2007 01:13 pm lol i just had a mental pic of a 'drunken nascar' league...it prolly wouldn't get past the 5th lap....i can see the pit stops now...drivers funneling beer that the crew brings to them!
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jun 14, 2007 02:21 pm Can a statement be bigoted if it speaks positively of something?
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 14, 2007 02:26 pm Drunken NASCAR... :)) now that would be entertaining!
Jun 14, 2007 03:36 pm The definition of bigot is "a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own" So yes it can be positive :)
Now listen, I'm only making a point not really disagreeing with you, but Jesus made a lot of teachings about loving God, one god, the only god that kind of stuff that goes directly against other religions beliefs.
How about this one "You cannot serve both God and Money" There's not that many people in the US who can truly follow that + why are the mutually exclusive ?
Maybe I'm just disagreeing for the sake of it but your making a very strong statement in favor of one belief, and, not just including the bad example you gave, there are people who can be "good" and believe differently.
Now what if you had to drunk drive to save your child :)
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jun 14, 2007 04:03 pm But Tony, db saying that jesus words are a good example to follow, is not in and of itself intolerant of any other opinions. It just says this is a good thing. It doesn't say there are no other good things. I guess there are examples where a positive statement could indeed be bigoted (for instance, jesus message is the best and only worthy message), but I didn't take dbs statement to be that expansive.
Jun 14, 2007 04:58 pm Coolo, you are most likely right but I think following it with "if someone disagrees with that they are simply disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable" takes the edge of it.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jun 15, 2007 12:34 pm The funny thing is I'm generally one of those smart asses that disagrees just to be disagreeable. I'm trying to work on that though...
Jun 15, 2007 12:45 pm Quote:
if someone disagrees with that they are simply disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable
One can disagree he was the son of God, one can disagree that the things he taught were "correct", but to disagree that he was a good person that lived a moral life, taught good lessons and was a good example of how to live, then they are doing just that...being difficult and disagreeable just to do so.
I am so incredibly giddy and coolo has my back on this one I am just beside myself.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jun 15, 2007 01:27 pm I just call 'em how I see 'em, that's all. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just didn't think your statement was bigoted or intolerant.
And don't worry db, I'm sure you'll have something to antagonize me with soon. Wouldn't want everyone to think we were too buddy buddy now...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 15, 2007 07:19 pm VCRob, point well taken regarding the offensive materials, in regards to being insulting.
Often people can, and will, post items (written text, or images) that are offensive, known to be offensive, and posted to create offense in other people.
In this instance, you're reference to written lyrics, and images. If posted to create offense, they should (in my opinion) be looked at as insulting. I agree. If you are insulted by them, I can see why. In some levels, I will agree, and concur that they are offensive.
But in the instance of the term 'nutball', this specifically calls out a certain type of person, based upon their religious platform, and I would think, directly insults them, but disregarding their point entirely. Brushing them off, with indifference, if you will.
Now I may agree with you, and I probably do much more than not, but I still think the term, and the way it was used seems insulting, especially in this thread.
Also, to add to that, if someone was involving themselves with this thread, but started thinking they were being called a 'nutball', they may pull back from posting in a healthy interchange, with, what I can tell, useful opinions.
Maybe not what I would agree with, but useful opinions, none-the-less.
I would hope that if I added a point that I believe to be correct, that someone didn't curtly dismiss me as a 'nutball', but instead gave at least a small amount of respect, before disregarding my point completely =).
I hope that made sense.
fwiw, I too think liberal interpretations of the bible weaken the whole message, and water down a lot of the basic teachings of the bible.
[quote]Quote:
Christ just said follow me, He didnt say be a Catholic or be a Presbyterian
... or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or Jewish or ....[/quote]
Wasn't Jesus already considered Jewish? That would kinda preclude him saying don't be 'this' or 'that'. He's already associated with a formal religion. Though he did get ticked with the Jewish elders, so maybe that clears him out from it.
Jun 15, 2007 08:05 pm Just to clear up the issue of the 'blasphemous' picture for those who haven't seen the movie:
It's a promo shot from Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_Life_of_Brian
I posted the picture because it corresponded with the lyrics posted by BH. In the film's final scene, the crucified men were singing that song. By the way, none of these men were Jesus.
I believe that Christ had a sense of humor too.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 15, 2007 08:11 pm I knew it was in jest, I was just pointing out that where some view humor, other find offense. I also mentioned, that if it was posted to offend, whereas I didn't have any indication that it was. Only humor.
As dB mentioned, it's never the same level with people, going from fun to offense.
But it is a thread, on the inet, so it's all good.
Jun 16, 2007 05:14 am i stand by my statement on the other thread...
it's an active choice to be offended....now if it comes from someone who's opinion you respect *internet buddies excluded, i'm talkin' about a REAL friend*, then it weighs in a bit more....otherwise *as in on an internet forum* it's a choice to take offense.
there isn't ANYTHING anyone can say here that'll "push me over the edge"....i'll stand up for what i believe in, and if you guys hate on me for it, fine...no qualms here.
bring on the 'your mom' jokes if you must!
again, even rape can be funny, given proper context.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jun 16, 2007 09:15 am Ya, in the 60's there was a woman singer Twiggey. The joke was that she had a tatoo put on her chest saying "this side up in case of rape". It was no Blaaa-haaaa joke, but it produced a lot of snickers.
There are a lot of sites out there I find offensive, valgur, demeaning, etc. and I truly do appreciate the collective tone or demeanor of this site. However, I do agree with WYD, it is an active choice to 'take personal offence' to anything. The active word being take, or accept. Obviously, there is yet another dynamic; the choice to act out on being offended by becoming offfinsive. Now we have two or more people displaying character weaknesess in a pig wrastling contest. It's a rather embarsing position for one to find themselves, given one has the warewithall to make that discovery.
Jun 16, 2007 11:05 am My last post is about as kowtowing as I get, and you probably won't see the likes of it again.
"This side up in case of rape"... Walt, that's hilarious! I hadn't heard that one.
VCRobPMember
Since: May 10, 2007
Jun 16, 2007 12:27 pm Point well taken in return pjk. I would have to agree with you.
:)
God chose the Jewish race from which to bring forth the savior. To say that Christ was actually Jewish would mean that he would had to have been from Mary's blood which could not have been since she was not (contrary to Catholic beliefs) a sinless or without sin human being. There could have been no way that Christ could have had anything imperfect in his makeup.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 16, 2007 02:18 pm one of the funniest experiences I had in the miliatry was while working on a child rape case... the kids statement got sucked underneith the glass of the photocopier and the US JAG office didn't own the copier, the local (Belgian) office did... they didn't want us to do anything to the copier but the attourny didn't want the repair man to see the document... we were able to make a compromise to that we could take the copier apart and the repairmen could put it back together (if need be) so me and a Major pulled out our lethermans and took the copier apart...we even put it back together on our own. :)
That same office practically shut down for 30 minutes trying to figure out what a 'drillbee' was... a pokimon card... your tax dollars at work :)
Another fun incident there was when a 'rogue' SPAWAR employee email bombed all of FORCECOM inviting them to participate in a nonexistant class... ofcourse... that wasn't so bad... but ... he put all of the addresses in the TO: line... so the single paragraph email was 500kb to about 300,000 people... through the servers at NATO Headquarters... I had to do an estimate on the server load... I think it was somewhere around 3 hours of dedicated time... the Regional rep of SPAWAR about had a heart attack :)...and the employee was very quickly fired.
Jun 16, 2007 04:52 pm SPAWAR...hah, they work on DoD satellites and stuff. I almost interviewed with em till I realized they wanted programmers (I'm a Mech Engr).
Interesting thread. I'd join in but my head is swimming already.
I will say, for the record. Moral relativism is in itself a paradox. You must have a moral "right" and "wrong" to have a moral "better" or "worse".
Life is a lot easier if you live it with the idea that as long as you're "relatively good" you will not face any consequences after this life. Too bad "relatively good" requires an absolute good to be defined. What is the absolute good?
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jun 16, 2007 07:53 pm I probably also should comment on describing Christ as Liberal... I don't think thats the best term... innovative is probably better... Many of Christs teachings were far more conservative... perticularaly about applying the 'law' to thought instead of just actions.
Jun 17, 2007 01:22 am If thoughts are as "sinful" as actions, all of our reservations are booked. Don't bother with packing a sweater.
It's these types of ideas that make me wonder about certain people and their motivations. Someone mentioned thought police...
I'm not buying into that paranoia.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jun 17, 2007 02:53 am I have come to believe that many move to judging and playing God easily. I have discovered that I have a lot of latitude in my thinking for example. I also have the ability to alter my perspectives and therefor thinking. I also know that my actions are much more fruitfull when they are honest and coherent with my thinking. To me these passages are oportunities for growth. They don't conotate how I will be judged. Judgement per my belief is not mine to have or understand. It is also reflected in the question above 'what is absolute good'. It isn't of this world, so I doubt it is a question that can be answered. It's like the concepts of nothing and infinity. No examples of that here, yet they are concepts we use which to us are imaginary at best.
Jun 17, 2007 04:39 am Maybe it's time to relax and not worry so much about what books try to sell us, and what dogmas try to force, and think about common sense.
What many people call "God" or "Satan", I call "conscience". When I make choices - good or bad - I don't reassign the praise or blame to invisible entities. I take the credit or the knocks myself.
"Thou canst not then be false to any man." (Bill Shakespeare)
We can go around and around ad nauseam, but the simple facts will remain:
1) Spirituality is a fundamental aspect of the human psyche.
2) All psyches have different spirits.
3) Some spirits communicate well with others, some don't.
4) Your god cannot change # 3.
5) Humans are strongly advised not to attempt assuming the position of the entity mentioned in # 4.
Jun 17, 2007 05:23 am Quote:
one of the funniest experiences I had in the miliatry was while working on a child rape case...
what he said!
see, good is obviously good (and i do believe we can all agree on "what is good?" this) and funny is funny....
it's REALLY gonna take some ailen contact to pull us all together and realize we ARE one...perspective IS important....the day we make "contact" of some sort is the day we realize "oh, ****"
until then, we will squable amognst ourselves...(tennessee public education talkin' here)...bla bla i donno where i'm gooin' with this.
