song - Homesick (demo)
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Posted on Apr 08, 2005 09:48 am
Tadpui
I am not a crook's head
Member Since: Mar 14, 2003
So I'm going to finally get a start on recording my first LP. The songs are all 4 or 5 years old, and they were my first attempts at songwriting. They all turned out to have a southern kind of influence...like I'd said in a post a while back, I ended up writing an alt. country album before I even knew what alt. country was!
Anyways, this is to be the title track of the album. The entire LP will be built around acoustic guitar and vocals, so I want to get an attractive acoustic tone. So here's my first attempt at using dual micing techniques. This is 1 take, vocals and guitar at the same time. If anybody listens to this demo, please comment on the following things if you please:
- are the room acoustics too apparent in the guitar/vocals? This room's acoustics really suck but I'm so used to it that I can't really hear it any more.
- is the acoustic guitar too boomy?
- is the compression too much on either the guitar or vocals?
- do the microphones seem to be in phase? I played with placement and it didn't seem to make the difference that I thought it would.
- I think that I'm going to do a few songs from the LP in the same way as this one (play/sing at the same time and record both). is the balance b/n voice/guitar OK?
- is the song too long? does it drag along? its nearly 5:00 long which worries me.
I have plans for this song to include some brush-style drums and harmonica as the lead instrument so hopefully it'll be a bit more interesting.
www.aarvid.com/tadpui/Homesick.mp3
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vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Apr 08, 2005 11:08 am Hi-ya Tadpui!
I like the song, I wouldn't really call it country. Just an accoustic song!
- The room accoustics sound good to me. I am listening on dinky speakers at work and will take a listen when I get home.
- The accoustic is a little bass-y. Try this to make it full and stereo sounding. You might have this going on already, hard to tell on the speakers I'm on. I would double track the accoustic. On one track, put a chorus on it to make it sound stereo. Like it's surrounding you. The other track, leave it the way you have it here with maybe panning some left or right. It might sound like crap or it might give you a cool accoustic surround sound.
- I think the compression is good. I don't think I'm good at judging compression though, but your volumes isn't going up and down on either the accoustic or vocals. So, I think you're good there.
- Placement of mic. I can't say anything, I haven't done placements with accoustics yet.
- Balance sounds good to me too.
- Na, song isn't too long. I'm tired of hearing songs that are like 2 1/2 minutes.
Brush sounding drums would be cool. I always like an accoustic setup. We do it at church sometimes and I love it.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 08, 2005 11:23 am * the following review was based on pc speakers * =)
I concur with vdale, I think guitar is a little boxy sounding, but I'd also bring up the high end on the guitar. I think that would help. The double tracking/1 chorus sounds like a neat trick, i'd definately try that.
The vocals had a small room sound when the vocals got more pressed, later on in the song. I'd have to listen in a better environment to take any more issue than that.
I really dig the song. I'm gonna listen to it on phones at home for a better listen.
I also think brushes would be a good addition. A real light touch. The harp would be good as well, also a light touch.
Nice job
Apr 08, 2005 12:41 pm * the following review was based on pc speakers * ยง=o)
i'm really vibin' the intimate feel of a single guitar and vocal.... i'm not sure if i'd double track it....well i guess if you're gonna do more instruments then it'd be ok......it's impossible to judge the low end on my speakers, from what i can here, it's not too bassey just due to the fact that it's only the guitar and you....nothin' for it to compete with, so i like a fuller sound on it anyway.
- the room sounds good to me, i'd put a bit more of a dark "halley" (roll off around 2k) reverb on top of your room, to smear it a bit, on both your voice and the guitar. that should push ya back just enought to get more depth without makin' it into a balad.
- compression is very good (to me) sounds very natural without any big jumps....
- i can't check phase here....monitor one mic in mono, slowly fade in the other mic...if it sounds like you're boosting the mids when they start to blend, you're out of phase....also if you have a polarity button, and you flip it, if the sound sounds like it's sucked inside out, and you flip it again, and it's full...you're in phase....i'd start by finding the first major transient by zooming in on a harder strum....if you get real close you can use your "now time" line (vertical) to see if your zero crossings, peaks, and dips are lined up.
- i dig the feel of singer/songwriter so i'd say it'd be fine for an album like that, the balance sounds very natural to me.
- the song is a bit long, but if it's emotionally charged enough (lyrically, and performancely) it'll keep my attention....i didn't absorb all the lyrics but all sounded well to me...i can listen to this driving at night, or in a bathtub ect....not durring poker night though.
overall, sound is fantasticly naked...lots of soul and humaness, which is something i don't hear enough these days!!!
props to your mom
wyd
Apr 08, 2005 01:29 pm Wow, I'm really liking the song itself. Good good tune. As a production, I wouls add very little support. Just a little dums and perhaps the harmonica. Sounds GREAT naked. Might lose that feel if you add too much.
Could be shortened a bit, but hey, it is what it is. If it compromises your intention, leave it.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Apr 08, 2005 03:30 pm Well everyone else is specifying their speaker environment so: *listening on Klipsch Pro Media 4.1*
First I wouldn't call it country, more Folk Rock, along the lines of Dylan.
The guitar and vocal balance sound excellent to me, and I don't hear any boomyness in the guitar, sounds very natural, I think it's about right for the singer/songwriter style. I don't think I'd double track the guitar, but maybe use another mic on it just to be able to spread the guitar out a bit more. Everything sounds very centered right now, which is fine if that's the sound your going for though.
Compression seems fine to me.
A harmonica would definitley be at the top of my list for things to add to the song, especially considering the length. I think it's a great song, but I did start wandering once it went over the 4 minute mark, some nice harmonica parts in there would bring the attention back.
Drum wise I'd have to hear with brushes, I'm not sure that would be the ticket, but thats just my opinion. I really don't think it needs any drums at all.
There were a couple areas the vocals weren't quite nailed but overall excellent job on the vocals.
I don't think I'd over produce this one, you should keep it pretty much as is.
As I said I think it's a great song, done with heart felt expression, nice one Tad! :)
Dan
BrunoThe Quiet MindedMember
Since: Jan 01, 2003
Apr 08, 2005 06:19 pm what compression settings did you use on vocals?
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Apr 08, 2005 06:24 pm Hey thanks for all of the listens everybody! This is just a demo that I did between loads of laundry last night so sorry that its a bit rough around the edges.
I'll play with some options with panning and stereo imaging. I'm kinda stuck right now because I have 2 mics: a dynamic on the guitar, and a condensor that picks up vocals and the guitar. If I pan them, then it'll start to sound a bit odd because the vocals will get pushed off to 1 side or the other. I guess that its an inherent flaw in the way I'm doing this, and it may make me end up tracking them seperately so that I can have the flexability of panning how I want.
My monitoring system at home is a 5.1 system that's designed to flatter music, not tell the truth about it, so y'alls commentary is very valueable to me. You're my ears!
And I'm not trying to pass this off as a country tune...I just thought that it was in the vein of some of the alt. country stuff that I've heard that I'd call a combination of folk/pop/rock too.
I'll try the phase-cancellation trick to see if the mics are, in fact, in phase. I just thought that the nodes of the sound waves would be much smaller. I moved the condensor around in about a 1 foot radius and only heard a minor amount of phasing happening...I thought that it would be more drastic.
Thanks again for the listens...any more commentary is very welcome before I start trying to record this stuff for keeps!
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Apr 08, 2005 06:25 pm Oops Bruno, I just missed your post. I'll check the specific settings when I get home in a little bit and let ya know.
Josh RoseJR ProductionsMember
Since: Mar 03, 2005
Apr 08, 2005 06:46 pm Hey great song man. Personally, I would add a little bit more reverb to vocals and guitar (but don't get carried away like I used to do). As far as compression and room acustics go everything sounds fine. Because I'm a drummer, I would like to hear a soft brush part in there. And no it is definetly not too long.
Good Luck
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Apr 08, 2005 07:21 pm Cool Josh, thanks. Funny thing is, I was just contemplating getting rid of the ambient reverb that I have on there and going totally dry but I think that I'll try subtly adding a more hall-like verb.
Bruno, on the condensor track I had the threshold set to where it'd only engage when I was singing. The ratio was 2.5:1 with the knee as soft as it'd go. The attack was about 30ms with a .04s release.
Oh and Im using the Classic Series compressor VST plugin.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 09, 2005 12:26 am Wow, I had to listen quietly tonight, but I will definately be listening again tommorrow. At low volume I am hearing something between Arlo Guthrie and Bob D. Very nice indeed. And it sounds like a pretty natural room.
BrunoThe Quiet MindedMember
Since: Jan 01, 2003
Apr 09, 2005 09:15 am feel dumb to ask but what is a soft knee?
btw, I really liked the song as a whole.
Apr 09, 2005 09:19 am soft knee and hard knee are the speed and "hardness" at which the compressor attacks...softknee is a bit more gentle, hard knee is a sharp hit.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Apr 09, 2005 11:56 am I listened again on the cans at home, it improved over the PC speakers =). I didn't notice the room sensation like i did on the pc spk, so that's cool. I'd still bring up the high end on the guitar. I'd also try the dual tracking thing, though it can definately stand on it's own like it is.
Very nice. Living in the country, then the city, now back, I can relate to your story. Very nice indeed.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 09, 2005 05:54 pm Yep, I'm going with the young Arlo Guthrie. You did a great job here capturing a very natural sound. It sound like a small stage in say a coffee house or something. All you need is a little crowd noise and clinking coffe cups and it would sound live.
The blend is pretty good, as it does sound as though it could have been just one mic recording the whole thing.
I wouldnt change a thing except maybe if you want to brighton up the guitar a tiny bit. But I wouldnt go overboard on that either.
My only gripe is you should let the guitar ring out at the end. It cuts off adruptly.
Apr 09, 2005 06:48 pm Tad,
Finally getting a chance to listen to this...
I can't offer much in the way of technical advice that hasn't already been given. That being said, I LOVE THIS SONG! I don't ever remember hearing any of your stuff before, not really what I would have expected...but I love it!
Great songwriting. As you may know, I'm and old folkie, and a big fan of alt-country. This is the kind of stuff I really dig. I can't wait to hear more songs as you record them.
Great work, my man.
Jim
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Apr 10, 2005 05:26 pm Top Song.
I also can't offer any more than has been already said tachnically.
I think the Brush drums idea would work really well for sure and adding some harp would sound great as well. Flute even!
Great stuff
Apr 11, 2005 07:22 pm Hey tad! Very nice piece you have hear.
Listening with *Coby Headphones...18-22,000 MHz*
Song: Has lots of soul! Really like! No improvements really needed. Length is good...not too long, not too short.
Recording: Nothing that's too obviously out of whack. When first listening to it, I thought that it would be nice to bring your voice level up just a bit to bring it to the front more, but it's nothing that will hurt. I'm sure I would think differently when listening through regular speakers. Through headphones, the guitar has a bigger sound than your voice, but I don't think there is any need to track them separately...
Acoustics: I don't know what positions you've tried/used to record your piece, but I do know that the best place to record vocals is smack dab in the middle of the room. Plus, cover up any 90-degree angled corners...that's where the "roomy" reverberation makes acoustics go bad. Try to use pillows or thick blankets and just stuff in the corners so that it absorbs most of the sound.
Overall, the piece, to me, is valid as a demo. Keep writing!
