How Long is your set
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Posted on Apr 29, 2004 09:08 am
Mauz
grrrrrrr
Member Since: Mar 29, 2004
Hey guys. I went around a few clubs to check out if they needed some live musicians. I really like this chill little place. Unfortunately they want bands that play covers and that play for 3 hours with two 15 minute breaks. What agony. I have about 10 songs I would consider playing but they are only about 3-4 minutes each. Maybe a bit longer jammed out. But that still is only about an hour of stuff. Maybe throw in some covers? But I feel like that really defeats the point. I can't deal with that. Have any of you had similar experiences?
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Apr 29, 2004 09:20 am Well, let's be serious here, if you want real paying gigs you are gonna have to work for it. They want bands that can cover a full night. If you only have a decent hour-or-so set then you are not nearly ready for paying gigs at any decent venues.
What would be in your best interest is to find bars that have the mid-week "new band night" type of shows where 3 or four bands play in a night. They typically don't pay (or very little anyway) but it's a way to get your nameout there, get some practice on stage in live situations and learn the trade.
Gigging is a lot more then getting up and rocking out...you have to learn to deal with venue owners, in house sound techs, be respectful of other bands and network with them for possible future relationships, learn to efficiently breakdown and set up your gear and much more. The actual gig is the easy part.
When any band I have ever been in started making any real money it was 3-4 hour shows playing a mix of originals and covers...up until that point it was a pain in the ***, but we did many freebie new band night sorta things.
You are walking in to a music scene that already has established bands with good gigs, good relationships with venue owners and loyal followings. If you expect to just walk in and break up any of that with one hour of material you are sorely mistaken.
None of this is meant to sound mean, it's just the harsh reality of the music scene...
Apr 29, 2004 09:22 am Beyond that, give us some background here, how old are you? Have you been in a gigging band before (I assume not or you would not be surprised by what you mentioned in your post)? Where are you? Is the music scene good there?
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Apr 29, 2004 12:42 pm Ya, we play 45 minute sets on average. Standard gig is 3 or 4 sets. We average about 20 songs per set. So ya between 60 and 80 songs per gig. Most do covers and highlight their own stuff. The other route is to put together gigs with more than one band.
WillumIdiot.Member
Since: Apr 22, 2004
Apr 29, 2004 12:49 pm Yeah, that's what we do... we play Metal so a long set is almost an impossibility...
So - we have like 3 bands and we go "here! have 3 bands!"...
Apr 29, 2004 12:52 pm What makes a long set impossible for metal as opposed to any other style of music? Im my teenage/20's I played in a couple metal bands, we'd play for hours...
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Apr 29, 2004 04:03 pm flipcycle play a 25 minute set comprising of 5 songs.
short sets mean u don't bore people ;)
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Apr 29, 2004 04:19 pm I think it really just depends on the venue/booker/promoter and what they expect. I honestly have trouble sitting through sets that are longer than an hour (as the audience). When performing, I usually try to go 30 min to 45 min.
Apr 29, 2004 04:37 pm jeezuz, I am coming to the UK to see Flipcycle for a stinkin 25 minutes...sheesh...
Apr 29, 2004 05:06 pm My band plays anywhere between 20 and 40 minutes... it all depends on how long they allow us to play.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Apr 29, 2004 05:11 pm possibly the greatest 25 minutes of your life...
btw: new ep is almost ready - should have an mp3 by early next week
Apr 29, 2004 05:27 pm Quote:
possibly the greatest 25 minutes of your life...
I won't comment on that but I admire your confidence :-D
Apr 29, 2004 06:27 pm When I played with my band we found that the bars usually wanted 2-3 hours all covers and were very strict on no original material. As mentioned we would usually pair up a couple of bands and tear it up. The rest of the venues in my area (Hartford, CT/USA) usually wanted no more than 30-45 for opening acts and 45-1:30 for headlining bands. Of course the big name acts would get anywhere from 1-2 hours in there which cut down the first opening act to a 15 minute set - rather pointless but they do it.
My personal opinion, maybe only because I was the drummer in a heavy rock act, is 45 seems to be enough for the musicians and the crowd. Maybe I'm just out of shape. =)
Anyways it's all up to what the venue wants from you but learn those covers if you want to make the cash - those were always the best paying gigs for us.
Apr 29, 2004 06:56 pm Yes, unfortunately getting into originals does limit the places you can comfortably play. Even in all cover bars, the bands I was in would generally sneak a half-dozen or so originals in anyway...
DanMember
Since: Nov 21, 2002
Apr 29, 2004 07:07 pm my 2 cents + tax.
Well round here in the NYC area, it depends on who/where. from my experience, generally, if your doing originals, expect to do a 45 minute set and dont expect to get paid much (most we've ever made for 45 minutes was 75 bucks which is pretty damn good) and you have to learn how to effectively manuever your equipment onto/off of the stage smoothly while the previous/next band is setting up/breaking down, and
KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR EQUIPMENT AT ALL TIMES in these situations where bands are comin and leaving a crowded bar.
If your doing covers, then generally they want you to fill a night, generally when doing cover sets at bars, there is no middle man promoter, so the payment depends totally on the bar. We dont really do many cover shows anymore, most we made for 3 hours with 2 20 minute breaks was $190, which wasnt too bad, considering the scumhole the place was.
And remember, bars and promoters are all out to make money, they will always try to screw you. If you drag in 70 people, they're gonna say 50, so beware, they're all out to screw you.
CrashIgnorance Is StrengthMember
Since: Nov 10, 2002
Apr 30, 2004 02:25 pm When I played in Ohio, the bands started at 10 pm and played till 2 am. We broke it up into 3 45-50 min sets and the last set was over an hour. If you are not a jam band that means you need a lot of tunes. Personally I hate it when a band repeats tunes.
We would not play at places that didnt pay a minimum of $250 for a Thursday or other off nite. Pretty poor wages for a 5 piece band with a soundman. This was bare minimum at a place that was close and that we liked to play at. Or a place that would hire us for 2 nites and we didnt have to move equipment. Or a place that wanted to book us for every thrusday for a month. We wouldnt play for less than $350 on a friday or a Saturday. Of course we played for less than that when we were just getting started but after a while we were able to be a little more picky and charge more.
My advice is...if you are just getting started play as many gigs as you can for whatever they will pay but dont be a pushover, like, dont play for free or beer. It always helps when you can bring in some of your own fans/friends that the bar owner has never seen before. A few table filled with new faces makes a big difference to the owner. Expect to get stiffed, and NEVER leave your equipment in the car in the parking lot.
Apr 30, 2004 05:45 pm avoid adding covers if you dont want to be that type of band. i live in orlando, and three nights a week or more at will's pub, its a full evening of revolving bands, one after another. you don't get bored.
i have never known anyone who has got into music for the purpose of getting regular gigs/being a house band. although that's a fine ambition, the people i've known just want to write, record, and play out, and hopefully one day be the kind of band who OTHER people cover.
so if your city doesn't have a cool place like wills, i don't know what to tell you except, maybe, try organizing such a thing yourself and pitch it to bar owners. it's a good deal because it brings in lots of people: you have fans from all the bands showing up. then you get crossover fans who attach themselves to other bands they've met through this little setup.
every city should have a few places like this. orlando has quite a few, which makes it feels like a real scene.
DanMember
Since: Nov 21, 2002
Apr 30, 2004 06:58 pm Here in NYC there are plenty of bars and clubs that work like that, thats just about all there is, its great exposure.
Apr 30, 2004 07:08 pm Yeah, most any city has the revolving band format at least a couple times a week. The trouble is, while it is a way to get your name in the local music rag in the bars weekly lineups, and get seen by people, they are not usually the best paying gigs...
And actually, I know (or, have known throught he years) many people who play in two or three "house band" types of outfits and that is what they enjoy. Mostly these are seasoned vets of the scene that do so for a living. There is not the typical problems involved when writing original music and get noticed on a higher level, the pay is much better than local-level original bands and gigs are steadier (typically).
Las Vegas is a perfect example of people like that. Go to one casino on Monday see some band, then Tuesday night you see the guitarist and the singer from that band in two seperate bands at different casinos. It's a way to make a living.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
May 01, 2004 07:49 am Quote:
" learn those covers if you want to make the cash... "
Ahh, if they only paid us for musical self-indulgence !...
heh heh
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 03, 2004 02:51 pm Our band is a whole different scenario. Being a 17 piece big band we are by contract only. We usually book only 2 to 4 a month and obviously the price has to be met. It is still not lucrative. An average share is around $60.00 a gig and a good portion goes to paying for band owned equipment, van etc. Most of the gigs are large parties of some sort. Fund raisers, corporate bashes, some weddings, special occasion gigs for the wealthy etc. No bars etc. We have done some special occasion club work like a 25 year anniversary bash for one of the more prestigious clubs in Detroit.
May 03, 2004 03:08 pm We have somewhere around 60 songs. Our sets are normally an hour. This one club we play (The Tourist Inn) always brings in an opening band. They go on at 10 p.m. and play till 11 p.m. We start at 11:30. We used to take a 10 minute break after an hour. But, if you stop playing some people will leave. So now we play it straight through from 11:30 until about 1:45... although we've been known to play until 2a.m. And let me tell you this... a two and a half hour set is a long way home.
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
May 03, 2004 04:17 pm MAUZ--if you want to start, take the advice of the guys above. Be someone's opening act! Music is like anything else in the world...You have to start at the bottom. If you're good and people like it, you will soon have bands opening for you. This means that yes, you will have to play at 7 or 8pm on a wednesday. but after a while and hopefully some new songs, you can move on up to the east side, if you know what I mean. Be patient and don't trust anyone with greasy, slicked-back hair. Peace Out and Play On!
MauzgrrrrrrrMember
Since: Mar 29, 2004
May 04, 2004 10:54 am Wow. That is the most amazing advice ever! This is my background. 26 and never was really in a gigging band, but did various other kinds of performing so hoping that I will be able to transmit some stage presence. I have lots of friends so hopefully they will come along. Maybe getting together with some bands who also have oriignals and pitching the revoling band theme would work. I know lots of club owners as I used to own a night club promotion business.
I was also thinking of a few other ways to keep things cool. Since I recruited pretty much all jazz musicians I could claim we are a jazz band and send them off on cool jams. My drummer is really good with sampling too so I am thinking of maybe having pop/rock songs that go off into weird directions like either into jazz jams or into sort of trippy electronica. Sort of tring to develop ways to drag out songs if the need arises.
Dont think can I deal with covers unless they are covers nobody knows.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 04, 2004 10:53 pm Mouze,
Jazz is a little different cat. Most of the giging jazz groups that I know do Parenthitical "covers" but the genre leaves a lot of latitude for interpretation. As far as the jazz crowd is concerned those songs are origional interpretations. But the bottom line of "entertainment" still rules. Be prepared to provide three hours or so of entertainment if you want to start booking. It is a cool genre to work. People don't turned off by jazz musicians who choose to post charts when they play. There is the concept of "trained" musicians so the chart is an ok thing to have. I got a call about a year ago to throw a gig with a "quartet" sax, key, kit, and mebebass music sight unseen. I read off the keyboards copy of a fake book. It was a bit of a rush, got the two second tour of the roadmap and off we went. The crowd loved it, we got paid well. It was a lot of fun. The sax was the front and he did take a LOT of liberties. Many of the charts had I not had the title in front of me would have left me guessing. All about entertainment. Give folks a few hours of "good times". The other cool aspect to jazz is that it is quite acceptable to include "cover interpertations" on albums. Only down side is that you probably will never sell mega-million copies. Twelve year olds who spend the music money usually pass up the jazz section.
MauzgrrrrrrrMember
Since: Mar 29, 2004
May 05, 2004 04:57 am Maybe I will have a few different sets. First 45 minutes will do originals. So the people who actually want to come 'listen' I can invite at the beginning of the night. Then the second 45 do some jazzy tunes with a lot of improv. And then the last 45 just get really wasted and play stupid covers and get people up on stage dancing. Serious in the beginning then messing around after and having fun. That would be a good show I think.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 05, 2004 03:17 pm Now your getting closer! Ya, as they get drunk move closer to Rock & Roll. Just have a good chat with the folks early on and get a good feel for the tone of the gig. Last thing you need is a poor review at a prestegious gig.
