absolute newbie.. need some help!
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Posted on Oct 27, 2003 11:10 pm
ozgeorge
Member Since: Oct 27, 2003
hi all... what a cool site! i have a feeling there will be lots of ppl here who can help me with my questions!...
i want to start recording some songs i have written... guitars and bass etc.. maybe some percussion... i am happy to record most of the parts one at a time but for effects purposes i really want to be able to mike up my amp with two mikes and record the two separately so i can mix them together in different ways later...
i have a SB live! soundcard (i know these are horrible and not professional etc...). i also know that the mic preamps on these are not worth much!...
i was thinking of buying a cheap behringer mixer and using the preamps in that... is it possible to record two tracks simultaneously and separately using a mixer like this and the SB live? what are the monitoring capabilities?? can someone tell me if this will work and what the likely drawbacks would be?
also (and this will probably sound stupid) im not sure what the intrinsic differences between a mono and a stereo track are... can i still pan a mono track from left to righ? but just they are both the same? or is it fixed in the middle of the stereo picture? is it possible to "split" the stereo line in on my SB live to get to mono tracks??
i need help! sorry about the length of this... only just noticed... Thanks in advance
ozgeorge
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J. SCOTTHelp I'm stuck in Utah!!!!!!!!!Member
Since: Dec 10, 2002
Oct 27, 2003 11:43 pm You can only record as many seperate tracks as you have imputs on your sound card. If you only have one imput you can only record one track @ a time. I am not familiar w/ the SB live card. There are plenty of people on here that can help you. I just told you what I know (which is not much) but, dBMasters, Flametheband or any of the moderators should be able to give you all the info you need. Welcome to the board!!
Oct 27, 2003 11:51 pm thanks mate!
i know that with more money there are millions of options... but im not too fussed about quality (i play kinda lo-fi music) and well, im poor! shoestring budget ideas first please!
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Oct 28, 2003 12:17 am Heres a shoestring budget idea: Get yourself a delta 44 soundcard, they are reasonably priced and are even cheaper used, and a small behringer mixer. That would be what I reccomend. As far as recording on the SB, it is possible, and if memory serves me correctly a mixer and the SB will allow you to record two tracks at once by panning the signal hard left or hard right.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 28, 2003 12:36 am Loki is right about the hard left and right panning. You would have to pan one mic input on the mixer all the way to the left, and the second mic input all the way to the right. Then you will have to go into your wav editing software, copy the right (or the left) part of the wav into a new track. Then you can convert them both to stereo files. Voila, two tracks through one input.
You will hear many people sing the praises of the Behringer mixers here. I have been recording through an MX602a and an SBLive for a while and gotten decent results. The SB is not the greatest card, but not the worst, and it has a neat synth built in.
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Oct 28, 2003 12:40 am well... you can start out like i did.
*i should state that the use of illegaly hacked software isn't what i'm offering here*
i used a sblive card and used hacked version of vegas audio for multitracking and fruity loops for drums. i don't condone the illegal use of the appz but i wasn't sure i'd spend much time pursuing this "hobby" of recording. i just rendered click tracks or basic beats of what i wanted to play to and overdubbed guitar/bass/vocals one at a time until it was complete. all this with a cheap card and no mixer. so i guess what i would do is use the money you would use for the hardware and buy the software necessary (or find free versions that are out there) and get the hardware later if you decide on expanding.
fyi: a few years (and thousands of dollars) later i now own everything in my studio and feel quite confident in my abilities. yay for me then!
sorry... it's late. i make no sense. i'm tired and can't sleep. nite
Oct 28, 2003 12:46 am i know people that record with their soundblasters and onboard sound and thier computer mics and computer speakers with limited results. it works but you pay for it in sound quality anf flexibility. the way i see it, if recording is only a hobby (as inL you're not making $ doing it) do it however it works for you. I've been slowing building up a gear for a couple years and so far i have the M-Audio Delta 44 soundcard Loki mentioned (excellent entry level soundcard), a small 8-channel Behringer mx802a mixer, and I'm just monitoring off my home stereo and some headphones. Works for me for the time being, until i can afford some proper monitors :O)
Oct 28, 2003 12:53 am and yeah, el musicos right, software's important too. there's freeware software out there for you if you're on a buget, like Audacity, etc. It's a pretty powerful editor and VST host. Check our links section for mad links to stuff.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Oct 28, 2003 03:32 am I'm using a SB Audigy 2 now, and prior to that an SBLive. You can easily record 2 tracks at a time. Just set your recording software to record tracks in mono and then set the input for 1 track to left and the other track right in your software. Then with your mixer pan 1 left and the other track right.
A track recorded in Stereo will have 2 tracks inside a single track in your multi-track software. The mono recorded one will have only the one. You can pan either way, but of course if you recorded the track in stereo on a single track you'll be panning both of the stereo tracks. So normally you'll want to record in mono so that you can pan the parts individually.
Dan
tonyd1970The fat one always watches us.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2002
Oct 28, 2003 06:16 am first welcome to the machine!
next- im on the lowest end of what you can own and still record music. i use a sb live, i do use a behr 602 mixer but i dont usally record 2 things at the same time. and i use magix studio software (low end multi-track software.) I got the mixer for the preamps- which work great, and so i could do poorly mixed demo stuff with other folks all at once. (to see if its a song with possibilites) man i cant spell. anyway id go with the delta if you have to record more than one thing at a time. (panning does work with the 602)
dig around in here for all the reviews and such. and ask before you buy- theres not much these folks dont or havent in the past owned and used...
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Oct 28, 2003 06:20 am me too...im using an old pentium 2 machine, with a REALLY poor soundcard and the cheapest mixer i could find (a behringer 602, like tony...incidentally, a brilliant piece of kit for the £50 it cost me).
dont get too hung up on the gear straight away, i my advice..you can still get good results from even simple gear, its all about knowing how to use it!
fatboy slim, for example, still uses some old amiga computers, or so i was readin yesterday, with 10 year old multtrack software
its about what ya do with it, that counts!
Oct 28, 2003 06:54 am The last tapeOp mag had an article about "Manitoba", a remixing type of music maker dude from Canada (I think) that still reocrds his stuff with an OLD PC and Acid version 1. Founf the article kind of interesting, even tho I don't know him or his music, the article and the "don't get stuff I don't need" attitude I found very cool. Though he has a VERY foul mouth...
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Oct 28, 2003 07:13 am maybe thats cos he's used to swearing at his tempramental old equipment!
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Oct 28, 2003 06:37 pm haha. Yeah sound advice though, learn to work with what you have and improve from there, don't jump in and buy tons of equipment you have no use for, it'll only clutter your space and piss you off.
Oct 28, 2003 10:57 pm YO! Hey...im new too..just wanted to put my two coins in.
heres what i got....
did a little homework on your Sound Blaster Live. not bad for equipment.
Koki did give you good advice about looking into the Delta 44. i dont know if you need it, but with the Delta you can record up to 24bit. 4 1/4" ins and outs mic pre amps and works with almost everything. it not only sounds good, but its very user friendly, i have one so im very use to it. im going to get fire wire next...
about your sound blaster you got youself a nice little package, if i looked up the right one you got midi in, that would be good if you had reason, or Cubase, or even fruty loops, any program like that will work with your Sound Blaster Live, but depends if the programs are campatible with your sound blaster. you have mic line in and line in, out for your earphones, and out for line. thats not bad at all. so lets see what you can do with that...that means you could record a mic, and for example, a beat machine with only line out outputs, well that right there with a little thinking, and you got your self a production.
now you said you wanted to get a Behringer mixer, well thats not bad, you said your on a "shoe string" of a budget, so defently go with behringer, but let me tel you this from using one...they suck, not very good soundin, faders and pots get nasty in a little bit of time, but you get what you payed for. so i sugest you get a Behringer UB802 Eurorack 8 Input Mixer. this has what you need, one output, tape or line, depeing on how you want to do it, monitor outs, witch is amazing for te smal size, 2 mic line in with phantom power and 1 mono send, stereo return, not bad at all! if you live in los angles i sugest you go to Six Star DJ, you will get the mixer there for 50 bucks. what computer program are you going to use, i sugest you get Cool Edit pro or down load soundforge, if you have windows 95 get FREE Pro Tools and you will be doing just fine, remember your SB LIVE works for windows 95 so everything will be okay.
now a quick example of recording, well sence you have one input you have to channels, L and R. see this is what happens. L is channel one, and R is channel 2. so that means you are acturally recording 2 tracks. dont worry about recording mono or stereo for right now...lets look at what you got...u said you wanted to record Bass and Guitar, or maybe add some Vocals! you can do that! not a problem... so lets say you record the GUitars on Channel one, that means when your recording you have to set the line input to the L for Channel one, and the Bass to R cause you want that on channel 2. if you had busses on your mixer then you would have more out puts, but not right now...dont worry abou it... so now tat you have your Guitar on 1 and your Bass on 2 you are recording two tracks L and R. but when you play back, the guitar is on L and the Bass is on R....i dont think you want that...mix them down. leave the tracks mono and Mix them together. u will end up with one MOMo track with both guitar on bass....now if you want them stereo, simple record the guitar in a mic line input, then record the bass on a mic line input, but leave the program to record stero, technicly you are still recording mono, but in a program and on the output of your mixer its stereo, you could have a left and a right on both your bass or guitar, record one at a time, mix them down, and you have a nice stero mix, pan a little on each, add reverb, or echo or what ever the hell you want... and booom bang...u got a demo, 3 weeks later, your touring with linkin park, or better yet daft punk or maybe the neptues, HEY! the chinese guy from the neptues did his first multitrack recroding with 2 stereos and 2 tapes...i think you have it better...like that one guy from juarastic park said, "nature finds a way." YOU CAN DOOO IT!
Oct 30, 2003 01:07 am wow! i went away for two nights and i come back and theres all this awesome advice!! thanks a lot guys.. now i see how to use the stereo line in to get two channels. the old panning trick. and the behringer ub802 is exactly the mixer i was looking at....
the only querie i have left is this: when i have put down say a couple of rhythm tracks and then i want to record a solo or some vocals over the top, i want to be able to listen to the already recorded stuff on headphones and also hear the track i am recording. and i want to be able to control levels so i can hear them both clearly and give a good performance. is this what monitoring is? how would i achieve this with the setup mentioned above? because the recorded tracks are on the computer and the new tracks go through the mixer? i think i need a crash course tutorial in monitoring??
thanks a lot for all the advice!
rock on
ozgeorge
Oct 30, 2003 01:14 am also actually, one more thing!! the behringer ub1002 only costs 20 australian dollars more than the ub802 and has "two busses". what are the advantages of having busses?? would this be worthwhile??
cheers everyone
ozgeorge
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 30, 2003 01:46 am Hey, last things first, if you can afford the 20 australian dollars, I would get the busses. You may not be able to use them right now, but it will give you more options in the future, especially if you decide you need a sound card, such as the Delta 44 with more inputs.
As far as listening to previously recorded tracks while recording a current track, I believe you will need some sort of multitracking software (such as Cool Edit Pro, Sonar, Cubase, N-tracks, or many others). Once you have that, you can click on the icon that looks like a megaphone or speaker in the lower right hand corner of your computer screen. That will give you a menu of what will be played back. You will probably want to make sure your "Microphone" or "Line In" are not muted (depending on which input you plug your mixer into). That will allow you to hear what is being recorded and what is being played back at the same time.
I hope that makes sense.
Oct 30, 2003 04:49 am The extra busses are almost a MUST in the studio, even more than live sound. What it allows you to do is to route a signal to your sound card in all by itself, so it doesn't get mucked up with all the other sunds going on. If you are recording...say, drums, you can listen to all the other instruments over your cans than all the drum mics you pan to a nice stereo image and route then all to the sub out bus, then run the sub outs to your sound card ins. Then the signals never cross so you never have the infamous "Hey, everytime I record it reocrds my instrument plus everything playing back onto the new track" problem.
20 more? You'd make a huge mistake NOT to spend that extra 20 for the MASSIVE benefit of an extra bus.
In my humble opinion.
Oct 30, 2003 05:00 am ok thanks i will get the ub1002 then!
a question about routing: do i route the line out on my sound card back to my mixer and then from the mixer to my monitor/headphones?
also, here is another question that someone may or may not be able to answer about the SB live! sound card:
1. is it possible to use the mic in as a line in (ie, can the gain of the pre-amp be set to zero? or bypassed?)
2. if so, is the SB live! capable of recording both line in and mic in simultaneously? this would be cool cause it would effectively allow me to record 4 tracks simultaneously!
cheers
ozgeorge
Oct 30, 2003 05:08 am I have the 1622 Myself and I run the out back into the mixer and I do exactly what you described.
1- possible? yes you can use it. Not wise, but you can...and you can wreck stuff doing it.
2- No, I don't think so. The inputs of cards like the live are very weak. the A/D convertors are cheap. SB andSB knockoffs are really good at (and meant for) playback, not recording.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 30, 2003 12:22 pm Though there is a line in and a mic in, you can only record through one of them at a time. You can choose what you want to record from by going to the little speaker/megaphone icon again, then selecting: options, properties, recording, ok. This will bring you to a screen with several choices of where to record from including line in and mic in.
You can route your signal back to the mixer for playback if you like, or you can plug your headphones, monitors directly into your SBLive.
I'm not sure how it's supposed to be done, but I've always just plugged everything into the mic in on the SBLive. Of course, mostly all I've ever recorded was a microphone. But even the bass I sent through my Behringer mixer into the mic in. Hmmm.
Oct 30, 2003 12:23 pm Quote:
But even the bass I sent through my Behringer mixer into the mic in. Hmmm.
You'll pay the price for that someday down the line...
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 30, 2003 01:00 pm I don't/haven't recorded bass too much. Everything still works ok for now. But i'm upgrading soon,so hopefully won't need to do it anymore.
Oct 30, 2003 04:58 pm right, plug it in the mic/in. you just turn the gains down all the way right? just like you'd do on any other kind of preamp
