Feb 14, 2008 08:06 pm Is it just me, or is this type of thing becoming a weekly occurrence?
Several reported shot at Illinois university
Posted on Feb 14, 2008 05:57 pm
BeerHunter
www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member Since: Feb 07, 2005
www.cnn.com
(CNN) -- At least two people were shot and several injured shortly before 4 p.m. CT at Northern Illinois University outside Chicago, CNN affiliates are reporting.
Ambulances line up at Northern Illinois University after a shooting.
1 of 2 The gunman who opened fire in Cole Hall, a lecture building, is dead, according to DeKalb police, the Chicago Sun-Times is reporting.
According to the Chicago Tribune, the DeKalb County coroner's office said no fatalities had been immediately reported.
A local hospital tells CNN affiliate CLTV that it expects to receive 15 patients and has so far treated at least two.
CLTV reports that Kishwaukee Medical Center in DeKalb is treating six people with head wounds.
A woman named Corrine described the scene to CLTV, saying she was "carried out" of Cole Hall by a "wave" of students running for their lives.
"When one of the kids said, 'This guy is shooting!' I just ran to the next building as fast as I could and hid in an empty classroom."
Officers responded to a call of shots fired on campus around 3 p.m., DeKalb County Sheriff Roger Scott told the Tribune.
A professor at the school said there was a person with a gun in Cole Hall, a large lecture hall in Watson Hall. Scott said it was possible the assailant may have taken his own life.
The university had ordered its student body to seek shelter, and it canceled classes Thursday.
"Its has been confirmed that there has been a shooting on campus and several people have been taken away by ambulance," the school said in a posting on its DeKalb campus Web site. "All classes are canceled on the DeKalb campus. People are urged not to come to campus."
A law enforcement official being briefed on the situation tells CNN that the shooter used at least a shotgun. The official declined to be identified further because the incident was still developing.
An spokesman with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives tells CNN that some of its agents are on the scene -- strictly in an assistance role. He says one of the things ATF agents would do is help trace the weapon or weapons used. An FBI spokesman says several of that agency's agents were also en route to the scene to assist.
DeKalb is 65 miles west of downtown Chicago and 45 minutes southeast of Rockford.
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Feb 14, 2008 08:06 pm Is it just me, or is this type of thing becoming a weekly occurrence?
Feb 14, 2008 11:32 pm It's not just you. It is becoming vogue among distrubed adolescents. This is another down side of mass media. I don't simply mean media hype or unethical media practices. To those who perform these acts it is a form of imortilization, a way to be "heard" by society. By being one of the victoms or maybe the only 'victoms' in their minds they will never be questioned or scrutinized for their actions. They have the final 'word'.
Feb 15, 2008 12:42 am When did it become so easy for "kids" to obtain a weapon these days?
I understand hunting weapons, parents becoming lacked with the kid, and the kid getting a hold of that rifle.
But, kids today, are getting hand guns and high powered automatic weapons. Never mind circumventing the Brandy bill. Where are they getting the money?
Most of the weapons that they are buying are black market weapons. So, stolen, or lost weapons, whatever. They are not cheap! Then add in the price of ammo and clips. Where are they getting them?
Now I almost understand the desire to made famous from a tragic act. Almost! I don't understand the need to victimize the innocent.
Once again, I would almost understand if they where targeting their rival, or bully. I don't however understand the desire to target the innocent. Make no sense to me at all.
Also, whatever happened to settling your differences with your fist after school? Is that just passe'?
The reason I ask, is looking at most of these shooters, they are not small, or scraggly kids. Outsiders yes. Non-athletic, no.
I guess growing up in a different era removes me to the point of just utter confusion of kids today. From how much money they are generating, to how they face problems, and the desire to kill at a young age.
Feb 15, 2008 01:42 am This is getting ridiculous. Apparently it was a former grad student, so no spring chicken. Honestly, this just needs to stop!
Feb 15, 2008 07:05 am I know that this will give me a bad name but 'BAN' certain types of guns. I know this will never eliminate the problem, but it will reduce it. Yes a lot of the weapons are black market, but very often they are stolen from shops so at one stage they were legal guns. By banning the sale of these weapons it will reduce the amount on the black market.
I used to be a competition full bore pistol shooter in the UK then we had a couple of incedents where Handguns and rifles were outlawed. So i was not alowed to practic the sport that I enjoyed but if that is the price to pay to have a more stable society then I accept it! The amount of shootings in relative terms went down!
I now live in a village in Northern France where hunting is all around me, and there are thousands of guns for this purpose, yet we do not see the tragic events that happen over in the states.
What is the need to own a firearm that can hold multiple bullets? I can see no logical reason to this if you want to protect yourself then have a 12bore at your bedside - you fire two shots, the need to fire more is practically unheard of. Added to this you could fire salt pellets that are non fatal - that would stop anyone in their tracks.
Now I know that this is also a wider issue involving society in general and the breakdown in society, but come on stop the sale of rapid firing firearms.
I have probably offended a few / lots of members here But this is a subject very close to my principles. ( for those of you english members who remember micheal ryan of the hungerford shooting - I was there and new a victim)
Feb 15, 2008 07:09 am So, what is the problem here?
Do we have such an increase in mental illness? Is it people today just under so much stress, or growing increasingly incapable of handling stress? Do young peeps feel that helpless or lost? Does school prepare them this little for real life or do they care that little?
Back when I was in school guns were more available, lots of kids carried lock-blades on their belts, and this kind of thing never happened, so the "gun" part of the equation is moot, the problem lies with the people doing it.
I'm really starting to wonder what is going wrong...there are arguments to whether the job market is better or worse today, but, since there are arguments both ways tells me it's negligible...so that can't, or shouldn't, be an issue...
Feb 15, 2008 07:11 am Quote:
I know this will never eliminate the problem, but it will reduce it.
There are bans on certain types of guns, bans don't work, it didn't work during prohibition, it's hasn't worked for drugs, and it won't work for guns, I wish people would give up the "if it's a problem, make a law against it" mentality. It doesn't work.
Shooting people has been banned for a quite a while too...hasn't stopped people.
It's a problem in society...parents are not raising their kids with any form of respect for weapons or people. Music, movies and TV glorify the "martyr", the heros are often the villains...it's actually quite sad.
Please Note Sarcasm:
It doesn't happen in france because the french are pussies.
:-D
The more productive course of action would be to actually enforce laws that are already in place, rather than create a bunch of new ones that won't be either...current laws can have teeth if they are enforced, but they aren't...
Feb 15, 2008 07:27 am mmmeeeeeeeeooooooowwwwwww!! :-D
I agree that society is the major part to play in this, And yes enforce the laws more stringently. But my point stands that I can see no real need to have a weapon that can hold multiple rounds of ammunition........
Feb 15, 2008 07:27 am Too much society, with less and less people having to take responsibility for their actions.
Life evolves into one of 'ME FIRST' and screw the rest of you.
People can constantly see someone getting ahead by being a sphincter-circle, and they think "why is this schmuck getting ahead by being a dick, but I'm suffering and failing by being decent".
It turns people, and by association, it turns generations.
I expect it to get worse, not better. Mankind is less interested in the betterment of society as a whole.
Feb 15, 2008 08:09 am Quote:
But my point stands that I can see no real need to have a weapon that can hold multiple rounds of ammunition........
No, your point doesn't stand, it's meaningless, one shouldn't loose rights one has not abused. if you don't feel the need for one, don't have one, but don't dare tell me what I need or should feel the need for unless I have abused the privedge and proven myself incapable of such a responsiblity.
Quote:
I expect it to get worse, not better.
Sadly, I agree.
Feb 15, 2008 08:36 am I truely don't to offend anyone here on this post, not per political correctness, per my appreciation of them on this board. However for the purpose of impact....
The mentality of taking everybodys toys because one child used one bad, has got to go in this country!
Living in Michigan I'm damn lucky to have a firearm that will hold more than one round of ammunition. With our economy declining, break ins are on a serious rise. These folks doing the break ins are not too damn courtious. Now over 50, I'm not going to go head to head with a 20 year old in the middle of the night for a baseball bat douel, especially since it's usually more than one. I'm also not serving tea and crumpets until the police get around to stopping bye.
I'm real tired of living with the same set of liberties as a criminal or psycho in an attempt to keep them at bay. It is high time to stop handing everything over to the government saying fix this. Take a good look at your elected officials before going that road. In your right mind would you really give them that kind of power over your life? I wouldn't trust Bush to make a bank deposit for me! I'm not sure our govenor can tie her own shoes!
Feb 15, 2008 09:09 am dB I am not telling you what you need or don't need! I am purely pointing out That I cannot under any circumstances see the need to have a weapon that can hold multiple rounds. (i am talking about assult rifles, automatic pistols repeating shotguns and the like)
Feb 15, 2008 09:13 am There is half the problem, ignorance (not to be confused with "stupid", ignorance is not knowing). "Assault Rifles" (as defined by political idiots) and automatic weapons are already illegal...
So, what is an assault rifle? Well, according to the gov't it's any rifle with a pistol grip or foldable stock, as part of the definition, which makes my childhood pellet gun an assault rifle...
Not really interested in what YOU see the need for, read Walt's post above...unless you have the magic bullet like the one that got Kennedy, you'll need multiple shots. A law abiding citizen should be able to have any damn thing he wants.
Feb 15, 2008 09:53 am Yikes!
Let's try to turn this thing in a direction that makes sense. As per dB with a focus on functionality this "bucket" called assult weapons is Bull ****! I have a semi automatic firearm. It looks a little like an M15A1. That is a plus. In combat the fear factor is not to be underestimated. It holds 10 rounds. Those 10 rounds are 40SW rounds. They have good stopping power but will not travel through 16 walls and 22 of my neighbors. Their travel is relitively limited to the confines of my home. It is short and will not get bound up in furnature etc. while operating. The barrel is long enough to enhance accuracy when compared to a pistol. Recoil is also light and coupled with a relatively long barrel can be fired from any possition with a relatively high degree of accuracy.
Is this an assult weapon? Per defination no. Per 'reasonable mind' postulate it depends on who's psyche is behind the thing! Much like a kitchen knife, hammer, baseball bat, or rat poison!
Let's address the root problem here. It is a thinking problem. It has nothing to do with the things used by the people with the thinking problem.
Feb 15, 2008 12:23 pm Huh? I think I accidentally pulled this in a direction that I wasn't looking for.
When I placed my post, it was not intended for gun control. I was merely trying to understand what is going on in the younger generations heads.
I think we all know by now that gun control only works for legal weapons. It's that bumper sticker, Outlaw guns, and only outlaws will have guns. A very true statement.
For me, the misunderstanding with the youth of today stems from the actual planing of their attack.
Sure, when I was of their age, thoughts of violence crossed my mind. But, the actual sitting down, and planing out a massacre step by step. I would think at some point would make them sit back and contemplate what they are actually doing.
This does (obviously) not deter them. And I can not for the life of me understand why not? What is going on inside their mind that tells them that this is OK?
Sure, we blame the media for desensitizing our youth for most of this. But, think back to when we were kids ourselves. The media was for the most part, the same. Very little has changed in that department.
When JFK was assassinated, we didn't see an increase in the amount of shootings then. The only thing I can remember increasing form that incident was the high profile shootings increased a small amount. But, this is debatable on whether or not a single group was responsible for this.
So, my point in all of this is, why are the youth of today so removed from reality? Why is pulling the trigger a welcome alternative? And, how do we as a society combat this problem? And one other thing. This has always bugged me. Who are the people selling these weapons in rural areas? And why are they selling to kids?
Feb 15, 2008 02:30 pm I plan shooting a movie..err.. based on this stuff by 2009. I'm working on a script...
The issue needs to focus on the persons ability to make 'that choice.'
basically, studies involving prison inmates suggest that we focused too much on positive reinforcement. We thought for a while, that people are bullys because they have low self-esteem...so our educational system went though a huge push to build the self worth of children since the 80's. The side effect is of course, is that it's a load of crap... so we have 30 years worth of people over estimating their own value.
So the action boils down to social greed.
These people aren't 'crying out for help' ... they view others as being in the way.
Feb 15, 2008 04:57 pm Quote:
why are the youth of today so removed from reality?
Because they don't know what reality is.
They've been lied to for years, by their peers, their parents, their schools, their churches, by their government, by the media, the television, Hollywood, magazines, fashion designers, the computer, the interweb. What's true anymore? Wikipaedia?
I'm saddened by the whole thing.
Hums quietly> "Tell me why I don't like Mondays....tell me why....."
Feb 15, 2008 05:05 pm So, I guess the end result of it all, boils down to, that we have made more social-paths then ever. With the schools, parents, and media, all working against us.
So, where are we going? And why are we in this handbasket?
Feb 15, 2008 05:13 pm we say youth, but given that in this instance, this guy was at least 23 considering he was a former grad student... does that count as youth?
Feb 15, 2008 05:18 pm Well, how about, not so far removed?
Feb 15, 2008 05:55 pm The media etc. are not working against us, they are working for themselves. It's the American way.
The result is that we have sociopathic elements, but that's not the concern of the media etc. That just gives them more to work with....
My point, I guess, is that nobody takes any responsibility for anything. Besides, there's a lawyer on every corner who'll argue that you had "temporary insanity" or something (so long as he gets paid, he'll say anything). Spill a hot cup of coffee on your lap? Not you being clumsy, it's McDonald's fault for not directly telling you that the hot coffee you ordered is...er...hot...and not to spill it on your lap.
Reality is scripted (what, you don't watch TV anymore?), and the world seems to be mesmerized by the daily actions of the spoiled few. "Don't you know who I am?" (No. Should I? Oh, your an actress...Okay, I guess because you dress up and pretend you're excused from being civil. A football player....okay, you are now exempt from the law. etc.)
The government tells the people to be honest, and moral and in the same breath strips them of their basic rights, lies, and does immoral things.
The 'youth' of today are taught from an early age that there are no consequences, and it's somebody else's fault.
I'm not condoning the actions of those that go 'postal.' My thoughts are just that a bit of common sense would go a long way.
We're not allowed to have common sense, it makes us harder to control.
Feb 15, 2008 05:57 pm Notice that I didn't mention anything about gun control?
Feb 15, 2008 07:58 pm So, the question is, what can we do as a people/society, to try and prevent this from happening?
Feb 15, 2008 08:03 pm How about raising our children with respect for themselves and others? How about making kids accept responsibility for their actions? Maybe teaching kids there ARE social norms you live within? How about teaching kids the value of a hard days work and the pride that comes from it...
That's a start...turn off the ****** TV and raise your kids right...and if you aren't capable of it, don't have 'em!
Feb 15, 2008 10:12 pm Quote:
so our educational system went though a huge push to build the self worth of children since the 80's. The side effect is of course, is that it's a load of crap... so we have 30 years worth of people over estimating their own value.
I know this all too well, from firsthand experience.
At the college where I work, approximately 65% are "Generation Y" types (born after 1980), and a disturbing percentage of them feel the world owes them a living, and A grades should be handed to them even if they don't show up for classes. They stomp their feet and ask why they're being treated like children when they don't get their way.
Much of the blame goes to their hovering, smothering parents, who brainwashed them with the fantasy that each and every one of them is special. My wife’s experience with these students, among others, is one of the major reasons why she chose to get a doctorate in educational psychology, a fascinating field. Finding ways to teach someone who needs instant gratification and constant praise, even for mediocre achievement, is a big challenge for both of us. Ever try to produce educational videos for an audience with a twenty second attention span?
Fortunately, I was recently reassigned to work more in the IT department. Not a moment too soon, as I was getting tired of attempting to get medical videos look like an episode of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Feb 15, 2008 10:23 pm OK, I can agree with what is being stated here. Once again, growing up in a different era, I am unaware of the development of youngsters today. And the apparent lack of good parenting out there.
I can remember when I was growing up, if I did anything out-of-line, my neighbors went straight to my parents. Usually, when that happened, I couldn't sit for a week.
I have to wounder if this still continues? Or, are these new group of parents to afraid to discipline their children? My father was a firm believer in spare the rod, spoil the child. And I guess this is another area where the federal government has stepped in where they should not have. I'm not saying that this is the only way to raise kids, but for some, it couldn't hurt, .......Much!
Taking personal responsibility is something that was ingrained in me. My father was a cop. So, he was for ever going on about be a man, take responsibility for what you did. So what ever happened to that? Did Dr. Spock take that away to? Or did the "your so special" idiots tell them that it would lower there self esteem? Either way, I wish someone would bring it back!
Thank God I was not born during the 80's!
Feb 15, 2008 11:09 pm Quote:
Much of the blame goes to their hovering, smothering parents, who brainwashed them with the fantasy that each and every one of them is special.
The school district my wife teaches in calls them "helicopter parents".
Feb 16, 2008 12:58 am I was going to use that term, but I'd used it before. Trying to keep things fresh... :-P
Feb 16, 2008 01:55 am Quote:
That's a start...turn off the ****** TV and raise your kids right...and if you aren't capable of it, don't have 'em!
Damn right !
Alot of friends I know are out of their minds about one cause or another . Some are justified, others are derived from simple frustration about life being a tough go . All own guns... some own alot of guns . They talk about it, they write music about it, they become closer through the struggle of overcoming it . They persevere . What they don't do is go off shooting those they deem responsible... even if they are .
It's ******* barbaric .
Feb 16, 2008 02:12 am Get your mind in order. It's a concept for all ages.
I originally typed "get your mind right," then I realized that could be misleading.
Feb 16, 2008 10:11 am Wow, folks on this thread got something goin for them, of course looking at the crowd that's not a big supprise!
I have to cop some blame for this. I was part of the 'if it feels good do it', 'anything goes' 'peace, love, and lost in space movement'. The concepts were not inhearently destructive, we just didn't know what to do with them. Then came generations of memememememe. I meet parents who have children for little more reason than the neighbors have one, just like the BMW. They brag constantly about what THEIR critter does. Christmas is just another office competition of who bought the most for their posetions. Mom and Dad take great pride in their 'status' in life braging about how much they TAKE in a day and have little or nothing to say how the CONTRIBUTE. The damn god box plays constantly at night and the parents seem to aspire to what the thing depicts and advertises. Parents have become mere providers and do not teach, mentor, or guide. The same parents run the media. The same parents are the government. When the little **** runs up a $300.00 cell phone bill there is no real supprise that it doesn't see the problem after hearing it's parents brag about what they skim forever. And who in the hell convinced people that remaining youthfull ment acting like an adolecent for their whole lives? Ok, extending one's health into later years of life makes sense, but good God!; People, take advantage of the wisdom your mind can develop post 25 years old. It is different than the hormonal driven years but very pleasant and productive. It's a gift; accept it!
Yes we're manufacturing generations of sociopaths, by defination they know only themselves. They have been trained to do so.
Feb 19, 2008 11:42 am [quote]How about raising our children with respect for themselves and others? How about making kids accept responsibility for their actions? Maybe teaching kids there ARE social norms you live within? How about teaching kids the value of a hard days work and the pride that comes from it...
That's a start...turn off the ****** TV and raise your kids right...and if you aren't capable of it, don't have 'em![/quote]
Amen, brother.
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