Let's brainstorm about creative vocal ideas

> > > Let's brainstorm about creative vocal ideas

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Your favorite rockstar
Member Since: Feb 03, 2003

A friend and I write lots and lots (AND LOTS) of music together. We have for years. However, neither of us really have much experience singing, so usually when we get tired of writing instrumental stuff, we go out in search of one of our other friends that want to write with us.

Recently we have chatted about just testing our own limits with doing vocals ourselves. We daydream about how productive we could be with songwriting if we never had to wait for lyricists and vocalists to have time to work for us. So, we're going to start venturing down the path of writing and recording our own lyrics.

But the musical experimenter inside of me wants to explore more than the two of us just singing... I mean, of course we can do that, but I was trying to put together some other ideas on how we can get vocal content onto our songs. I thought maybe some of you would want to discuss/brainstorm along with me.

Here are some of the things I've come up with.

-Singing. This is obvious.

-Rapping. Despite the fact that we don't write "hip hop" music specifically, I actually feel like I can rap at least half-way well, so it can be interesting putting rap stuff over music that traditionally wouldn't include rapping.

-Sampling. Could be fun to use samplers of other vocal tracks

-Spoken Word/Story Telling. Could be like Henry Rollins, could be like Tenacious D's "Tribute". This could go lots of different ways.

-Reading. Ominous sounding biblical scriptures or other books could be interesting being read over appropriate sounding music

-Whispering (with effects). Can lead to cool sounding things. Especially when you start adding vocal distortion.

-Using a vocoder.

-Software singers. I've googled it and vound several online. They all sound very artificial from what I've heard, but in the right setting it could be possible.


Basically I'm trying to come up with a lot of ideas so that we can explore different paths. Obviously besides all of these being individual ideas, several of them at a time could be put together into one song, which leads to tons of possibilities.

Any one have any other thoughts to add, or anything else that could drive a discussion about this stuff?

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I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Aug 27, 2007 12:12 pm

I'm kind of in the same boat. I don't have much confidence in my own vocal prowess, but I don't have any feasibe alternatives to just singing myself for my own songs.

I think that one of the techniques that makes the most difference is to double-track the vocals. Keep hammering away at vocal takes until you get two that are consistent in hitting all the notes (not that I've EVER actually accomplished this myself).

Do several layers of vocal takes, and give each its own character. Like have one that's compressed all to hell, one that's high-shelved, one that's low-shelved, one that's distorted, one that's delayed, etc. Just stagger these things through the course of the song because having them all going all the time would be exhausting to the listener.

A couple of artists that come to mind that aren't very strong singers but still manage to achieve compelling vocals by layering are Sparklehorse and Simple Kid. Go to Amazon.com and listen to some samples of their songs and see if you can hear any of the cool tricks they use (its kinda tough on those low quality song samples).

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 27, 2007 01:10 pm

Software Singers...check out Vocaloid, I dig it myself, it's artificial sounding, but it is the best of breed for sure.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 27, 2007 01:42 pm

vocoder.

also I saw a youtube link where someone was using a rack mounted TC Helcion unit, and basically just using that to sound exactly like T Pain (huge pop, r&b, hip hop thing going on right now).

found it.




you could prolly turn down the settings so as to minimize the electro voice, but get it in tune...

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005

Aug 27, 2007 02:13 pm

We use Melodyne to touch up vocals. It is very flexible and sounds pretty natural unless you are REALLY off key.




Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 27, 2007 02:38 pm

oh my god. i need to have that melodyne in my life...

like seriously, holy **** that is amazing.

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005

Aug 27, 2007 03:31 pm

It works awesome. The harmonies are "ok" but the rest of it works great. Not suitable for a live application but in the studio when you need to touch up the occasion f'up it works great.

We often say, thank God for Melodyne.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 27, 2007 04:10 pm

I was looking at some of the other stuff that it does too. Being able to take audio samples and just turn it into your own vst instrtument. Pretty amazing stuff.

I'm afraid I would become reliant on it with my singing vocals though...

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Aug 28, 2007 10:36 am

I like the effect that the TC Helcion unit gives in that video.

That's sort of the stuff I'm looking for. Singing is great, but I really like the idea of looking for unique ways to put vocals in a song, besides straight up singing.

I've messed around with Vocaloid a little bit, too. I think you guys might all want to check that out.

What do you guys think of trying to hook up a guitar talk-box to a keyboard?

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Aug 29, 2007 02:17 pm

I'll reply to my own comment here in case anyone is interested in what I've found.

Last night I did hook up my keyboard to my talkbox. I had to use a small poweramp to get enough of a signal to come through, but once I did that it worked.

It was an interesting effect. Different sounds produced different results, obviously. Synth sounds were good, but you can get better results using a vocoder, and it doesn't sound that much different than the vocoder. Piano didn't yield much of anything. String sounds and choir sounds were interesting through the talk box, though.


www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005

Aug 29, 2007 02:50 pm

I love to hear about stuff like this. Someone not stuck in a box. Very cool. I experiment a lot and keep an open mind on EVERYTHING. I've been surprised many times when I thought something wasn't going to sound good at all and then was surprised with the outcome.

Thanks for the update and if you get any clips together that you can post, all the better.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 29, 2007 03:11 pm

chanting? scat? bmmmbrrrbmmmmbrrrrrr type sounds?

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Aug 29, 2007 03:22 pm

BeerHunter, you have any Outside-the-box ideas you could share, even if it's not specifically vocals? I'll try to get some example clips together in the next couple days if I get a free minute. It might not happen until after the weekend, though.


Coolo.... interesting ideas. It's weird... the chanting idea seems obvious now that you say it, but I've been brainstorming on this topic for several days and I never thought of that.

Scat is a cool idea, but for some reason it seems to me like it's something that would be tough to pick up. Maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit, though.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 29, 2007 04:07 pm

recorded phone conversations...
part of my job requires me to listen to recorded phone convos, and sometimes I'll play music at the same time and keep it low. Having both going at the same time often sounds very cool.

Also spoken word poetry, or even reading from a book or magazine, or newspaper...

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Aug 29, 2007 05:14 pm

These are cool ideas.

Reading is something I've done before. What's really cool is if you get some old book with elegant sounding old English, like Shakespeare or a King James Bible or something like that.

Have you ever seen those text-to-speech software converters? I stumbled across one a few months back that spoke in a British accent. That could be cool to feed it some Shakespearian passage over a cool piece of music.

This brainstorming is great... let's keep it up.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 30, 2007 12:54 pm

hey jazzy, if the english accent text to speech software you have is freeware, i'd love to a copy of it, or if you know where to find it.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Aug 30, 2007 02:49 pm

I like cutting all his and lows and making the megaphone type sound, every now and then that's a really cool effect.

If one can get their hands on "The Grungelizer" plug from Steinberg it's pretty fun, you can "turn back time" and make your recording sound like it's coming out of one of those old horn-type photograph things, add pops and ticks to it and stuff...kinda cool.

Man, I am going to have to dig that plug out of my old WaveLab 1.5 disc...I think that's the last time I ever saw it.

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Aug 30, 2007 03:05 pm

coolo, I found the link again...

www.datafurnace.net.au/sayzme/html/screenshot.html


It's freeware, but I tried to download it over my lunch break, and when I run the program nothing happens. Hopefully you have better luck with it.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Aug 30, 2007 03:33 pm

cool. thanks. I'm downloading now. Going to pick up the extra voices too.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Aug 30, 2007 03:39 pm

here's a AT&T demo t2s page:

www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php

You could pipe in a bunch of stuff, then record them and sample the heck out of them.

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Aug 30, 2007 03:46 pm

Wow, that page could be very useful. Lots of voices there.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Aug 30, 2007 04:05 pm

ha, my favorite is the german guy. he's got a cool accent =).

Cone Poker
Member
Since: Apr 07, 2002

Aug 30, 2007 08:10 pm

I am very fond of putting effects on vocals. I have been usuing a rotating speaker type effect lateley for a lot of stuff. it's rad

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Aug 31, 2007 05:50 am

one really cool thing i've done is record mutiple 'versions/takes' of a main vocal track....when workin' with hip-hop/rap type things, the performer will sing things a bit differently.....mix BOTH together for a real eerie effect.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Aug 31, 2007 11:12 pm

Its about time! I've been preaching to the choir for years about experimenting, now everybody is coming out of the closet.

I've been twisting sounds into something they are not for over 30 years. Can creating textures out of every day sounds for just about as long. Guitar effects on a vocal track, why not. Vocal effects on a drum track, yep. I learned early that nothing was off limits if you were not afraid to try it. If you haven't listened to a:drive in my music profile have a listen. It is completely filled with household items turned into percussion, drum and synth sounds. Samples of all kinds were twisted to become something else for that tune. About the only real instrument used there is the guitar, and even that was recorded out of the norm.

I can name lost of influences I've had. But my biggest influence really was my own imagination, and desire to just be different, and create something out of something else.

I love those little TTS things, very cool toys to have. I had an old one from MS but these are a bit better.

As for Melodyne, indeed very cool and deep tool. I use V-Vocal in some of the same ways. But it is not nearly as deep as Melodyne.

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Sep 05, 2007 08:52 am

I found an old copy of FL Studio that I have, and there's a speech thing on there. I THINK you can make it sing, too, but I haven't had enough time to play with it. Anyone have any experience?

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Sep 05, 2007 10:00 am

I've been eying Vocaloid for a while now. Looks very cool. I'm now going to check out that Melodyne because I NEED it.

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Sep 11, 2007 10:18 am

Here's a song that I did using a software singer. I don't have Vocaloid yet, so I used a program called "Virtual Singer" that comes with another program called "Harmony Assistant" (there's a pretty usable free demo online... google it)

The vocals sound artificial, but as you'll quickly be able to tell, this isn't a real serious song anyway, so it actually kinda works well.

www.mintpink.net/HRC/JimsAcoustic.mp3


student with too much free time!
Member
Since: Apr 17, 2006

Sep 21, 2007 06:06 am

Been working on this song for ages, and just could bet any lyrics/vocals to fit properly. So I thought I'd try something different, and just had a rant into the mic about things I'd seen or heard that this week that really pissed me off!!! I may re-record the vocals when I have something more interesting to say!!

Have a listen and see what you think.......fraid I couldn't get it to upload to here so go to

www.myspace.com/nickwatsonmusic Its called 'Hitting home'.....you have to scroll down on the player, Its at the bottom!

Cheers People!

Your favorite rockstar
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2003

Sep 24, 2007 01:42 pm

I like it, Nick. I don't think you should redo the vocals. I think it sounds cool how it is.

> > > Let's brainstorm about creative vocal ideas

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