Oct 18, 2005 09:00 pm USB 2.0 or 1.0? Whats the internal hard drive's access time? RPM? Buffer? Should be able to find specs on it.
just checking--hard drive question
Posted on Oct 18, 2005 08:40 pm
fortymile
Member Since: Jan 18, 2003
i bought a USB shell for my inherited internal hard drive. i DONT want to use that for recording, do i? because the access time will be too long?
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Oct 18, 2005 09:00 pm USB 2.0 or 1.0? Whats the internal hard drive's access time? RPM? Buffer? Should be able to find specs on it.
Oct 19, 2005 12:24 am usb 2.
dont know access time. is about 4 years old or 5. dont know rpm or buffer. was looking for general consensus. seems like a bad thing to do.
Oct 19, 2005 12:40 am USB 2.0 just came out in 2001, so it can't be all that antiquated. If you still have it out of the case, you could probably get a model number and do a quick search for RPM's. The higher the rpm the better. Most reasonably fast drives are 7200 rpm. Fastest ones are around 10k for reference.
I'd say try it out, see if it'll keep up. If nothing else, use it as a project backup disc.
Oct 19, 2005 01:14 am illl use it for backup.
i have a more important question.
i just got this shell, and so did a friend of mine. havent opened it yet, in case i have to return it.
the box said the hard drive must be formatted to use it in the external shell. i dont remember if it said/meant it had to be erased first! (if thats the kind of formatting it meant.)
db, i know you at least have experience with this. if anyone else has used an internal drive in a USB shell, i need to know if you have to erase the drive in order to use it. i hope not.
word on the street is (according to some web forum) that, whatever the score is on that former point there, that you have to set the to-be-external drive to 'master' as well.
really??? that seems confusing. then you have an internal drive set to master as well as an external drive set to master.
just trying to figure out what to do here. i have time, but my pal is selling his desktop tomorrow, so he asked me to make an emergency post for info on this. he's freaking out right now, thinking he's gonna lose his data.
Oct 19, 2005 01:26 pm All they mean by "formatted" is that the file system is on it and it's able to be recognized as a hard drive... If it's got data, like files, that you've already put on it, then it *must* have been formatted already... You shouldn't "need" to erase it to use it. The drive would show up in "My Computer" as, say, Drive F (removable) when plugged in. It just "disappears" when you unplug it. If you've ever used a digital camera or media reader, it's the same principal...
Oct 19, 2005 01:32 pm ok, thought so. but, please: i really need the answer to this now. abou the jumper pins. does the drive have to be set to master, and if so, why?my friend called attention to things on the web that were saying this, no explanation given.
does that not interfere with things somehow, given that youll now have an internal drive and an external drive both set to master?
Oct 19, 2005 01:35 pm I would beleive that the usb interface (the part that does the interpreting) will pretend to be a IDE controller. The PC will see the USB interface, then the USB interface will see the HD as an IDE device. In this instance it makes sense that the HD would be set to master, as there's nothing else on the 'USB' IDE controller. The internal devices (set to master or slave on the internal controllers) will have nothing to do with the external, USB interface.
Hope that makes sense.
As far as the formatting, like jmail said, the instance for formatting is when the HD has never been used before, or has some oddball type of file system on it. If you've got data on it, then it should be fine to wake up and be seen right away.
Oct 19, 2005 01:37 pm Master and slave should matter once it's in a USB case, it's a USB device...not requiring it. If it does not work, try setting it as master, see if it works...but it shouldn't matter as far as I know.
Other than that, I am with Jmail, if it's got data, it is formatted...thats not saying it's formatted with the right filesystem (depends on the PC it came out of) but it HAS to be formatted to hold any data.
Plug it in, plug it in and see what happens...shouldn't be a big deal.
Oct 19, 2005 02:01 pm I did a little searching, and it sounds like setting the drive to master is the way to go.
www.removable-storage-gui...-settings.shtml
"For most external enclosures, the hard drive jumper is required to be set to the Master mode"
Oct 19, 2005 02:04 pm stop thinking so hard...it's just a USB device and works like any other.
Oct 19, 2005 02:09 pm ok, disregard my 'how.' that IDE post by pjk there seems to make a little sense. not completely clear, but i think i can see where youre trying to lead me with that. 'theres nothing else on the USB IDE controller.' this makes me think that you have master/slaves set for...each bus? and youre saying that on this 'virtual bus' there's only the one drive, so it should be set to master? thats my guess as to what youre saying.
as for the formattting issue, cool. that was the big issue.
Oct 19, 2005 02:10 pm Well, you can plug USB hubs into a single USB port, no assignments or anything (as I recall) the USB device just see's each device for what it is, a unique USB device.
Oct 19, 2005 02:10 pm The external controller / hard drive won't have anything to do with your internal controllers / drives.
Just like the first internal controller and the second internal controller can both have a master device, so can the external controller. It's just acting as a third hard drive controller, independant of the other two.
Oct 19, 2005 02:11 pm 'stop thinking so hard...it's just a USB device and works like any other.'
i wasnt. i missed the two posts right above kenn's link when i posted 'HOW' and thought people just werent answering.
other than that, though, i just kind of feel in the dark about a lot of computer things and am jealous of y'all's knowledge. dont make me come over there, db...i'll show you my IDE
Oct 19, 2005 02:12 pm hopefully, it's not 'SCSI'
ooh, that's awful
Oct 19, 2005 02:12 pm LOL
Bring it on Homeboy!
Seriously, it's not that tough, plug 'er in and boot up, thats all I did...it's not until you try to start BOOTING from a USB drive that it gets messy...
Oct 19, 2005 02:13 pm What? SCSI rocks. Just like IDE only it'll take 7 devices instead of just two.
Oct 19, 2005 02:17 pm ok, thanks all. points basically understood.
Oct 19, 2005 02:19 pm I was using the phonetic pronounciation (scuzzy) in reference to him showing you his IDE,
man, I gotta go back to work =)
Oct 19, 2005 02:20 pm oh, I guess my sense of humor is vacant, I've been in a deep funk the last couple days...my bad.
Oct 19, 2005 03:24 pm i misphrased my threat. wanted to get it up quick cause the thread was movin so fast. what i meant to say was...
actually i cant even figure out how to say it. IDE sandwich? show you the real meaning of IDE? i dunno i think i have lead poisoning. my brain wont go.
Oct 19, 2005 03:26 pm you and me both, let's have a drink.
Oct 19, 2005 10:08 pm help!
ran into a problem.
got the thing hooked up. it's working ok. but --and actually i have always wondered about this--it says you shouldnt disconnect your external drive without using the hardware disconnect thing. the thing in the taskbar, you know. which lets you 'safely' disconnect an external device.
well, fine. i have always done that. but this time, i get a message saying it cant be disconnected right now--try again later. this happens sometimes with my ipod and i usually just shut the computer down. because i dont know what else to do.
i guess im just wondering why this removal thing is necessary, how i should handle this problem when the device refuses to be disconnected, and what and happens if i just shut down the computer itself nothing bad apparently--and it seems like my only option, when this happens. but, now that im dealing with important files i want to safeguard, i have to know what this whole deal is.
Oct 19, 2005 11:37 pm ...err modern SCSI can take 15 devices last I heard :)
but I've used a couple of those USB shells with an iBook G4... and I discovered that XP will allow you to read and write to an unformatted harddisk... it's just very very unwise.
as far as being unable to unmount the drive... is there any files or processes running fron the disk (including viruses)?
Or maybe (this is a "very unlikely maybe" as I'm not too sure this happens) if you copied a lot to the disk you could have blown the head or degaussed the platter. Harddrives are designed to read an write small files so if they send 15minutes writing it can stress the drive... and this file corruption maybe alble to prevent it from unmounting... the only way to check is to remount it and run a detailed scandisk or look for CRC (Cyclical Redundency Check) errors when reading files... if the platter was degaussed it is still a good harddrive it's like crosstalk on tape... a blown head will progressivly get worse usually very quickly.
But usually the problems associated with these things is getting them to mount...not unmount :)
Oct 20, 2005 03:29 am jesus! man, thats scary!
my ipod does this frequently. but just as frequently, it doesnt do it.
i just shut the damn thing off, you know. my tactic is to hope it doesnt happen again.
Oct 20, 2005 07:46 am when it says "cannot remove right now", i usually remove it anyway.
Oct 20, 2005 08:18 am Quote:
when it says "cannot remove right now", i usually remove it anyway.
You'll be damn sorry you did that someday...
Oct 20, 2005 03:51 pm ok but why does windows need you to do this? just wondering what possible reason there could be for this.
Oct 20, 2005 03:57 pm Why does Windows do what?
Hell, why does Windows do most of what it does? ::shrugs::
Oct 20, 2005 04:29 pm it's because information may be stored in RAM and not yet written to disk... so if you simply pull it it may corrupt the file or the directory.
Oct 20, 2005 10:16 pm Yep, if windows says not to disconnect at the moment. DONT! I wiped out my USB midi interface 3 times before I realized it wasnt done talking to the PC when I tried to disconnect it. My USB zip drive does that as well. Even if you think it should have been done talking long ago, it might not be.
forty, sorry to hear your feelin like a digital caveman. But it does get easier. I remember when I used to call dB 3,4 even 5 times a week with stuff that was new to me. Now I read a lot and try to stay at least a little geeked out.
Oct 20, 2005 10:33 pm no, i just mean that technology is still pretty
primitive, given that we're now officially IN THE FUTURE. thats what i meant. :)
i hope its ok to shut down the computer itself when i get this message. if someone says 'yes it is' then i will rest easy.
Oct 20, 2005 10:51 pm Yes it is. Windows will finish writng any data a little faster before it shuts down. At least that is the theory I think. I know my zip will spin and stall the shutdown a little at time so I assume that is what is going on. I could be wrong, however I have not lost anything following that route.
Oct 20, 2005 11:26 pm okay, so I should shutdown or restart to get it to speed up the disconnection process...
I've never had problems... yet, and I transfer stuff too and for from the little ext usb notebook hardrive all the time.
Oct 23, 2005 12:23 am The "modern age" we live in is slowly discovering that "hot swappable" ain't all it's cracked-up t be... firewire and USB *both* have the problem. Seems to have something to do with getting their juice from the computer bus. Anymore, I don't try to disconnect until I've powered-down. btw, that's a "modern-age" term - power-down...
Oct 23, 2005 02:56 pm After doing this I noticed something when we were begining to edit the new boyscout slide show wer do every year for our troop. The guy who scanned a lot of the pix brought them over on a USB hard drive so I could dump em onto my HD. When we had finished for the night I went to disconnect and it actually did take two try's to get it off safely. I had never really tried twice in a row like that and the second time was a charm.
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