Panning
Home > Home Recording Forum > Recording Techniques > Panning
Posted on Mar 18, 2005 05:02 pm
presley_07
Bohemian
Member Since: May 04, 2003
Hey guys,
In CS's thread he was talking about how the commercial records and engineers seem to be able to pan further then us , HOW do they do it:S any one know? because, I know how to give everything it's place in the mix using EQ (in theory haha, it doesn't always work) but how is it they seem to be able to pan further than me?
or is it something I can do as well?
can someone explain this:S?
Presley
[ Back to Top ]
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Mar 18, 2005 07:19 pm Stereo Widening is done basically with delays, that's the principal in most Stereo Widener plugin's and yes you can do it. :) You can either do it the hard way manually with delays, or you can grab/buy a plugin specifically for it. :)
Dan
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 19, 2005 12:52 am Yep, Sonar 4 Producer has it built right into the panning section now. As does the new secret beta dB and I are working on.
Wavelab as well has an imager plug, and I believe SoundForge does as well.
Mar 19, 2005 09:28 am Yeah I saw the plugin in wavelab, it just sounds like it goes right down to the middle and not to the sides, and the sound changes in such a way I don't even like it,
And what that with those delays:S
I really don't get it:S
Mar 19, 2005 09:30 am let's say I want the rhytm guitar tracks to be as wide as possible,
How would I go about...?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 19, 2005 10:16 am I've been wondering that as well. I've heard some stuff that seems to be coming out of behind you. Kinda trips me out. It'd be great to add some of that to projects.
Mar 19, 2005 02:49 pm Ive experimented with acoustic guitar, and some settings in which it sounds nice in the whole mix...... Ill post the settings when i find them
Mar 20, 2005 05:45 am anyone that can walk me through step by step or something?
Mar 21, 2005 03:18 pm anyone?
Mar 21, 2005 03:22 pm Quote:
Yep, Sonar 4 Producer has it built right into the panning section now. As does the new secret beta dB and I are working on.
It does?
I dunno Presley, I never use extreme panning I am a bigger fan of subtle...thats probably the only area of my little existence where subtlety rules...
Mar 21, 2005 03:29 pm I think it depends on the song... I like having things close in a uptempo song with few instruments (for example only guitar bass and drums )
But i'dd like to widen it up quite a bit when it's an uptempo FUll of instruments (Guitar, bass, drums, Organ, Piano, Pad, 10 vocal tracks, brass etc.. )
same goes for ballads btw haha...
But I saw OD talking about , delays and stuff... And I'm wondering how that works... cuz wouldn't your track go out of sync and such ?
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Mar 21, 2005 04:02 pm Well I generally use very little stereo imaging presley, so I wouldn't really be a good one to give you a walk thru or tips. :) The delays work in combination with regular panning I don't fully understand how it works, but that's what I've read. ;)
Let me check around tonight after work and see if I can find some free imagers, I know I've seen a couple.
Dan
Mar 21, 2005 04:05 pm thx dan!
Yeah I've found about 10 free imagers as well, I have the one in Waves Platinum collection as well... But when I use it to widen The guitar track ( a stereo track with 2 mono guitartracks panned hard left and hard right )it becomes just muddy, and totally not the way I would want it to sound...
Mar 21, 2005 04:29 pm If you think about a XY over head combination micing position, it uses phase and delay to create its stereo imaging, not spacing like AB.
Im guessing that it is "soughta" the same principle?
Mar 21, 2005 04:51 pm I have absolutly NO idea what ur talking about CS...
explain urself:)
XY AB???????
Mar 21, 2005 05:31 pm haha
XY stereo micing is one of the most common techniques used. Although there are several variations on this theme, the basic idea is to cross a pair of cardioid-pattern mics at approximately at a right angle to each other (actually, anywhere from 90 to 130 degrees). The resulting pattern gives a wide, directional coverage in front of the mics while attenuating sounds coming from the rear.
Keeping this crossed pair of capsules right next to each other improves mono-compatibility; separating them increases the perceived stereo "width," but introduces more phase anomalies between channels.
In field recording, XY micing is a good choice when a directional pattern is required. However, the variation in a cardioid capsule's off-axis frequency response tends to color ambiences somewhat. So, while I wouldn't reach for an XY mic to capture the ambiance of a crowded train station, I would use it to focus on the lazy squeak of an overhead ceiling fan.
Couldnt be stuffed explaining, good old google and control C
AB is just a spaced pair of microphones, eg. basic micing left and right over a drum kit
Mar 21, 2005 05:34 pm Dont make me post the link to the recording tips presley
Mar 21, 2005 05:49 pm Yeah but... What if the guitar tracks were recorded with a POD ?
[quote]
Dont make me post the link to the recording tips presley
[/quote]
Do we have recording tips?! ;-)
sticadokid*sticado: short and LOUD!*Member
Since: Feb 25, 2005
Mar 21, 2005 10:33 pm DUDE! there's a whole section on the navigation bar called Recording Tips! thats one of the things that's helped me out the most! :D
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 22, 2005 12:02 am dB, ya, fur sure. If you look at the pan section in Sonar 4 PE and then in the secret app.. There is a section called width. It is the 2 bars on the outer sides of the pan box. If you hold down cntrl and then move the curser in and click it will come up and show you the width rather then pan. And it simply just does what they've been talking about. It just adds a bit of delay and what have you to make for a wider stereo picture. I bugged it up way back in the secret project cause I dont think it sounds very realistic when you take it to the extreme.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Mar 22, 2005 02:53 am Presley, usually the Stereo Widners/Imagers are used on a complete stereo mix not on a mix of only left & right guitar. Also rather than hard left/right Try panning the guitars at around 75% L/R and you might get a bit better results.
Overdoing it though will definitley not sound very good IMO.
Dan
Mar 22, 2005 10:54 am Thx guys!
Sticado kid, I was just kiddin' ;-) haha
being here for almost 2 years I think I've read every single page of this site
Mar 22, 2005 10:56 am I wonder how many pages there actually is now...gotta be thousands...
Mar 22, 2005 01:26 pm Yeah a lot haha I even read every forum post:|
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Mar 22, 2005 01:50 pm even all of mine?
Mar 22, 2005 01:53 pm what a friggin waste of time THAT is.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Mar 22, 2005 02:04 pm lol. you think you got it bad, im the doofus who has to type all this nonsense!
Mar 22, 2005 02:18 pm Yeah some were good especially when ur feeling down;)
riffgodwww.charlienaebeck.comMember
Since: Apr 10, 2004
Mar 22, 2005 02:47 pm looks like you guys are coming up with some cool stuff. I will add that something you might be looking for has to do with reverb and how deep you place a sound in a mix. They sometimes put a bit of reverb on sounds they want to sit back in the mix, and then leave the other sounds clean and compressed to give them that "in your face" kind of feel. As for widening, I think with delay that there is a formula that has to do with the BPM of the song and the sample rate that you can do to set the delay for special effects like that also. I have no clue caus I read articles about everything I can get my hands on and have only tried the depth tricks, but you might want to try searching for something like that online. :) Goodluck
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 22, 2005 07:47 pm OK, I made a boo boo. It is in the pan sectio of the secret porject app. Not sure where in the heck I saw it in Sonar, but its there somewhere.
Mar 27, 2005 12:06 pm Quote:
Yeah I saw the plugin in wavelab, it just sounds like it goes right down to the middle and not to the sides, and the sound changes in such a way I don't even like it,
well, i dunno if my quote thing will work, it works on other sites but we'll see :)
Presley, about the waveLab stereo expander, yeah, when u load it up it does seem to put everything horribly into the middle, but you need to adjust the % parameter wheel to make it spread out. the higher the %, the wider it goes. i never realy use more than about 64% when mastering guitar based tracks, but see what u think :)
