Dec 03, 2004 08:13 am Hey Bruno.
We have the Avalon VT 737SP Vacuum Tube mic preamp. You heard of it?
Cheers,
BM
Anyone owns an AVALON?
Posted on Dec 03, 2004 08:05 am
Bruno
The Quiet Minded
Member Since: Jan 01, 2003
I just wanted to know if anyone here ows an Avalon. My day will come, like 20 years from now....
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Dec 03, 2004 08:13 am Hey Bruno.
We have the Avalon VT 737SP Vacuum Tube mic preamp. You heard of it?
Cheers,
BM
Dec 03, 2004 09:17 am Oh my god! That´s unit of my dreams! Tell me about it please. Is there any song you recorded with it available for download?
Dec 03, 2004 01:15 pm I've been thinking heavily on getting the Avalon 737sp but was unsure if I really needed it. I would use it mainly for bass and vocals, and guitar if it made sense. Can someone tell me if I actually would need the 737sp if I am running my bass through a Tech 21 RBI, and if I am running my guitar through a PODxt.
Would there be any point running the line then through the Avalon after/or before the PODxt or the Tech 21 RBI? I was told there would be no point and that I would just be wasting my money. That there would be no enhancement of signal.
And regarding vocals: Would you just run your mic through the Avalon and that's it? I suppose my real question is: Don't you run everything through the Avalon after/or before any amp modeling system or Bass DI like the Tech 21 RBI? And what's the best way to utilize the Avalon with anything you're recording? Any help on this subject would be most appreciated on my end as well. Thanks guys.
Dec 03, 2004 01:57 pm ...I can't even afford it in my dreams...
Dec 03, 2004 02:25 pm Hey guys...just off the top of my head...I would say there is no good reason to own the Avalon...I think dB might back me on this one.
When I bought it, it was heavily reduced and I had no idea what it actually was. In the shop I compared its sound to other preamps using different mics with and without it. The difference was standout...which is why I bought it...and I knew that I could sell it on if the recording studio idea didn't work...for similar money...I knew I wasn't going to lose...luck of the draw I guess?
It wasn't until I got home and realised that the local recording studio had two to record in stereo...plus they have the Avalon VT 747SP Compressor for mastering.
We are very new to home recording, having only put our studio together in August this year...so BJT I'm afraid to disappoint you about whether the Avalon 737SP would make any difference in your situation. With regard to value for money...it was a wise choice due to what we were able to buy it for which was less than Muso's Friend is selling it for.
But re vox...you run straight in. There is a mic in, a line in and a line out...they are all balanced. Also there is a link for linking in stereo...On the front you can adjust settings to get the sound you want...and there is an instrument DI for anything...but bass is good through it too.
It is a straight forward piece of equipment even the most inexperienced person can use...straight out of the box.
My understanding is that the Avalon 737SP can be used live and that apparently singers like Andrea Bocelli and Celin Dion use it for that purpose too.
We were hoping to become HRCpro last night and post the first of my sons songs for appraisal...so you will be able to hear that sometime later today, I think Bruno...
The only thing is that if you compare it to Coco's EP, 'Fill the Void' there doesn't seem to be much difference at this stage between his recordings and my sons...so...go figure...others may have an opinion on this.
All in all, we are pretty happy with it so far...other than the fact that...at this stage...our recordings are not up to the standard that Coco has set.
Also keep in mind that I had a strong feeling that my son would likely have a career in this area...in fact he is off to the School of Audio Engineering Institute in Auckland next year and will transfer to Byron Bay, Australia the year after, to complete the degrees in audio, they offer.
At the end of the day...if Coco can produce the level of recording with his equipment and we are trailling him in terms of standard of recording...then I guess BJT...you have your answer.
But like I said...dB will be able to better advise...are you there dB?
Cheers,
BM :-)
Dec 03, 2004 02:29 pm Yeah, I'm here and I avoid these threads.
I personally think too many people worry about what gear they have more than how to best use it, or what they have, which serves no good purpose and I refuse to condone such activity. I have gotten by for years with the preamps on my mixer and have never had any complaints from any client in the 8 years or so I have been in business...
I find that most people just want the hype and bragging right more than the gear and knowing how to use it.
Dec 03, 2004 02:44 pm Ooops...:-(...sowwy bout putting you on the spot there dB...but thanks for taking the time...and I'll remember that next time...:-)
But there y'have it boys...dB has never had any complaints with his gear...and its about knowing how to use your gear which is one reason why Coco sounds superior to my son.
We use Coco as an example because we are always striving for a similar professional sounding sound...
Anyways...you've heard it from dB and I'll finish this with wishing you all the best of luck with your own gear and a merry xmas and a happy new year...
Cheers,
BM :-)
Dec 03, 2004 02:46 pm keep in mind dB only owns/runs the web site and is by no means the be-all-end-all opinion on any subject discussed...
Dec 03, 2004 03:56 pm ...yes he is...
:)
Dec 03, 2004 04:39 pm Thanks guys. This is just the kind of advice I was looking for. Looks like I just saved myself $2,000. Be determined to MASTER the equipment you have. Lesson learned. MASTER! MASTER! MASTER of puppets is pulling the strings! MASTER your gear.
Dec 03, 2004 04:53 pm well, well, well..I would say I have learned that lesson, but I think there's nothing wrong about having a dream of having an Avalon. Of course, if we lay our decisions only upon the cost benefit relation I would never think about getting one of this, but here i am talking about dreams and for sure, that unit makes me dream, and if someday for some reason I have that much spare money I am probably going to buy it.
Dec 16, 2004 06:16 pm heres my take...
i'm with db that if you dont know how to use equipment, it doesn't matter how expensive it is, it will sound bad.
BUT, i'm under the opinion that once you know how to use the "cheap" equipment well, there is no shame in taking the studio gear to the next level and learning how to use that equipment even better. That is the way to making a semi-pro studio, without having to give up years and big bucks of school!
(but good news to those who can't afford it is that you CAN get great sound out of cheap equipment by knowing how to use it!)
Dec 16, 2004 06:33 pm I'm thinking much along the same lines as Drake here. I think if you purchase any high end gear without knowing what you are doing, it is a waste of money. Sure, you might grow into it, but you might never get as much out of it as it can give, cuz you don't know how. I think it is a better idea to start with some less expensive, but capable gear, and practice, practice, practice, until you know exactly how to use it in whatever situation. Learn how sound works, and you will eventually be able to get very good sound out of good equipment. Then, once you've got that down, you can graduate to some higher end equipment and you will be able to get great sound. Or at least that's my theory.
Dec 16, 2004 06:46 pm Oh, absolutely, I agree completely with both of the previous comments.
But, what I have seen happen in my years in the band circuit is that I watch people drive themselves into the poor house buying all the best stuff they can get, and are then disillusioned because they still sound like the half-baked 70's Zeppelin cover band that they are. Know what I mean?
My personally philospohy is, and pretty much always have been, first, live within your means, and make do with what you have or can afford. It's the theory I created HRC on, because everybody else will tell you to spend hellish amounts of money on all this top end gear...that bugs me.
So please, don't misunderstand my intentions...I am just tired of hearing people more concerned about the brand of their gear more than the quality of their music.
Dec 16, 2004 07:13 pm There is no doubt about it. Great results can be obtained with mid line gear depending who the knob turner is. Your ears are everything. Milk your current gear for everything it's worth, then if you feel so inclined buy a 2,000 box and see if things improve, if not return it to MA and get your money back. Hope I'm not over simplifying. :)....oh and please report back here and share your experience with it. I won't feel that your bragging and will be grateful for the info.
Dec 16, 2004 09:09 pm Yeah, I can't stand those message boards where people claim that they can actually hear and tell you every little difference between each piece of gear. Not only that, but they think the difference between mid-priced and fully pro stuff is so gigantic that it's going to make-or-break your recording. I wonder how good some of their mixes actually sound when they're paying so much attention to the minute differences between the sound of different pieces of gear. It's not going to make a bit of difference if you don't know how to use it and don't have an ear for mixing/mastering.
Dec 16, 2004 10:06 pm I can only relate my experience.
I have gear ranging from Behringer to Tascam to Alesis. Call it whatever grade you wish. I have yet to max it out. Each recording I do is better than the last. I am always improving. That is my focus, developing an art. I have met a lot of bass players that have much better gear and would love my chair. They need to practice. That is not braging, it is simply what they need. They need to spend time not money.
One thing I have discovered in recording. When asked what equipment to use, the answer is equipment that flatters the performer. If Whitney drops by I will be in trouble. I don't have a Newman and I would want one to get every fine detail of her voice. Now Britney Spanial bops in, I got it covered. My NT1 or MK319 will capture everything she would want to hear. Suzy Starstruck, winner of three MR. B's careokee night competition floats in playing air guitar with her underwear on her head and it's off for an SM57 and a half dozen spit guards. Death Grog and Satin's Preditors make an appointement and I will probably wire up a couple of used PC speakers as mics. Anything with greater detail and I would be spending the rest of my natural born life editing out flem noises and underwear flapping in software.
I have heard some awsome recordings here done with almost nothing. I have also heard many very poor recordings come out of studios with mega buck gear.
My approach to gear is simple. A good example is my last bass purchase. I spent two years trying every bass I could lay my hands on. I was looking for a sound that nothing I owned could create. I found one, I bought it. It was not the most expensive nor the least. I heard a lot of opinions about basses over the last 30 years. My conclusion is that they all have their place, just not all in my arsonal.
Dec 16, 2004 11:23 pm My sig. other is a professional photographer. He has the very best in pro gear as well as your typical consumer cameras. He shoots all my stuff with the cheap stuff. I can't afford him, but mostly it's a matter of convenience. He says it's not the gear, it's being able to recognize good light when it's there, and how to create good light. Most amateur photographers just don't understand light, as well as their gear.
I think the same is true with sound.
Though he can function with the cheaper tools. He certainly enjoys the finest tools of his profession and spending a small fortune on them.
I think when your a craftsman you like to have the finest tools of your trade, even though you can function with cheaper ones that can get the job done. The dilemma is that in audio the price is more outrageous than in any other craft, so we make do.
Dec 17, 2004 12:15 am Good point RC, the only caviot is that "finest tools" in this industry is also a very personal decision.
Quote:
Photographers are restless, questing individuals and in some ways sublimate their urge for accomplishment into the desire to possess superior equipment. Without intending to depreciate the magnifient equipment available today, it is suggested that the photographer think first about what he "sees" and what he wants to "say" before he launches into acquisition of advanced equipment. If a man has something to say, he could say it with a box camera with a pinhone for a lens!
Ansel Adams on Deciding which camera to buy.
Dec 17, 2004 12:31 pm Excellent qoute Walt. Of course the same goes for muscians who suffer the same affliction. Many people are in love with the idea of themselves being percieved as an artist rather than the creative process of creating a vision, and I'll spend my time posting on forums rather than face a creative block in the studio. :):)
Dec 20, 2004 11:41 pm All that said, I am a gear hore. But I dont buy it unless I know it will be of great value to the studio. I have really pared down the set-up in hear and replaced so much out board gear with software. It is really as has been stated a matter of learning how to use the tools you have to the best of your ability. Then, and only then when you cant go any further with them, you might want to move up to a bit higher type of gear.
But all that said, you can, and I most certainly do get by with much lower priced gear. And it is all a matter of dinding ways around its limitations. MOst often there will be a trick her or there that will allow you to compensate for something that might be missing or lacking.
I make up for not having a $5000.00 mic pre by learning how to get the same sound with the software pluggins I have, or at least very close. But then again, I spend countless hours tweaking till I get exactly what I want. Others may not have that option or time, nor do they want to spend sleepless nights fidgiting about trying to emulate that huge Pultec compressor with a $200.00 software pluggin.
AS Walt was making the point, its not what ya got, but how you learn to use it.
Dec 21, 2004 01:32 am Thank you Noise for that!
To me, admittidly phylosophical, searching out gear that is of reasonable cost to the individual is all a part of the indy movement. The prohibitive cost of some gear does little besides buffer the large production studio's from competition from musicians of lesser means. It is precisely that control over what is produced, and marketed that is demeaning to the consumer as well as musician. My feeling is that I am increasingly being exposed to cheep reprints of things someone else deemed markatable, not art.
I have seen so many folks here do so well regardless of their financial means. Young folks in their teens creating excelent recordings. Hobbiests such as myself meeting or exceeding the production studio's sonic quality with their art. Every musician per my experience should record. It offers an increadable insite to what the musician is actually projecting. Every musician should not have to spend increadable amounts of money to do so.
By all means if you want an Avalon for what ever reason please buy one if you can. But to infer that you have to have one to get a decent recording, especially for the newcommer, is pure falicy. The rest of Ansel's comment on the purchase of equipment goes on to talk about convenience and efficiency of more sofisicted gear. Now we are back to production.
As you stated, working through the process is of so much benifit. This is the mark of the musician, the craftsman, the artist. It's not about buying something that sounds like something done before. It's about technique, imprinting, finding ones own vision and making it reality.
I truely hope HRC can retain it's focus on art. There are a ton of sites out there that cater to the who's who of equipment owners. Complete with braging rights, the game of one upmanship, the titilizing game of what is most expensive and what does it do. Having visited many prior to finding HRC, I find them hollow and usless. Obviously I kept looking.
Oh well. No sense in babbling further. HRC is still a great place to learn and grow. Speaking of which, I have a piece I have to finish imprinting into my fingers. A band I'm recording lost their bass player and I guess I am subing in. A little out of my Genre' but by golly I think I am getting on top of it!
Always good to chatter with ya Noise!
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