May 13, 2004 05:24 am There IS NO topic in the Talkin' Smack forum :-)
I'll read it and let ya know what I think. I hate all things left-wing, so I'll tell ya if I see it :-)
Am I completely insane
Posted on May 13, 2004 05:08 am
Willum
Idiot.
Member Since: Apr 22, 2004
I posted an article on my site about being indie, and I've managed to get nothing but bad feedback about it.. I've been called a "left-wing" and "insane"...
I'm a bit worried that perhaps I am, I tend to trust the opions of the guys that wrote this stuff to me:
If you don't mind, read the topic and tell me what you think... if I am being outrageous I want to know...
It's about independent music and the media.. sorry if this is a bit off topic dB, but I kinda think it's faily on-topic.
www.pithrecords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=198
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May 13, 2004 05:24 am There IS NO topic in the Talkin' Smack forum :-)
I'll read it and let ya know what I think. I hate all things left-wing, so I'll tell ya if I see it :-)
May 13, 2004 05:32 am Well, based on a quick scan I can tell you that you are touching on a couple of subjects that are very current, very fresh in people minds and VERY MUCH stir up emotion in people on our side of the pond. Therefore you are bound to get reaction from people.
On a personal note, I disagree with most of your interpretations of the writings you analyze, but that personal opinion and nothing more. It does come off pretty left-wing to me...which is kinda the same thing as insane in my book :-)
May 13, 2004 06:41 am Yeah - that's cool... Thanks for giving it a read... of course it's going to come off left-wing, that's the kinda guy I am. Heh.. I've never called myself "left-wing", but I guess I am. how's that?
I'm also a bit insane, so that's cool. :)
You're the first right-winger type yet that has seen that article (granted, not many people have) who's actually kept a cool head about it... heh.
Which bits do you disagree with? I think I erred on the side of paranoid for a fair bit of it for the shock value kinda thing, which is probably to my detriment, but hey...
No-one has yet told me bits of the article suck and given me a reason why (apart from your 'it's personal opinion' which is the damn most honest reasonable one I've got yet)... which kinda bugs me.
May 13, 2004 07:01 am I just read it as though your interpretation of things is typical liberal type "everyone is a victim" type of stuff, and very much exagerates and sensationalizes others suffering...but layes blame for that suffering anywhere but on the person themselves. Though much of it seemed to be tongue-in-cheek.
May 13, 2004 07:14 am yeah, you're right there (on both points, it is tongue in cheek and it is sensationalist stuff)...
Perhaps next time I talk about this stuff I should like tone it back a bit and be more factual or sommin?
To be honest I thought I was blaming the suffering on the person themselves - because they're not doing anything to change the situation... like at the end where it says
"Q: What are you going to do about it?"
Did I make that bit of it not clear enough or sommin... I have a feel I've kinda pooed up my own argument by being kinda hypocritical and stuff.
May 13, 2004 07:22 am Yes, you kinda swing both ways a little bit, but it's not what stands out to me.
It's not very left-wing of you to blame the person themselves, a more lefty way of thinking is that it's their parents fault for giving them a bad childhood and they should seek therapy :-)
I have learned that your best bet is to avoid subjects that spark that kind of emotion unless you are prepared to suffer the consequences. Besides, most everything in the article has nothing to do with your label at all...seems very illogically placed. What you need to do is start a blog site where you can just post your random thoughts and editorials and not allow it to have as much impact on your bsuiness venture as this one does. That is how you loose customers and bands interest by totally pissing them off.
May 13, 2004 07:24 am We have had topics like that totally blow up into huge verbal brawls on this site from time to time, and myself and others have since toned it down to a mutual "agree to disagree" mentality...and it's been very peaceful since...
May 13, 2004 07:53 am Yeah.. heh - it's funny you should say that.. one of the guys on our forum who I consider to be quite right wing has the same though... he doesn't want us losing viewers over that kind of thing...
Perhaps you're both right...
And y'know - while I am on the side of the fence that says that it's their parents fault for giving them a childhood I'm also firmly of the belief that those people should quit whining and go out and change thier own damn position... Heh. There's plently of metally disabled folks that make it fine (I myself was diagnosed as severly bipolar about a year ago, leaning toward schizotypal (not unfounded, nearly killed myself a few times) - and now I've kicked the medication... it's amazing what regular sleep and excersize and a good diet does!)
It just seems a bit odd to me - 'cause in my mind they are linked quite heavily, and I thought I was pointing that out...
But y'know - I think when it all comes down to it - you're right.. best not stir up the dust and get bad karma floating around between the 'members' of Pith, it probably wont help in the long run.
Heh. Thanks Dan, you've placated me a fair bit - I got lost in the fevour of it all for a while there, can't be smart.
I have a bunch more questions I'd love to ask you about all this, but I'll leave em to email or PM or sommin - dun wanna start a stupid political debate in these forums either righT? :P
May 13, 2004 08:07 am "Debates" in and of themselves are fine, even fun. The problem is that they can so quickly turn into "arguments". It's a fine line, and I for one am quick to jump. I have worked on my quick temper my entire life, it's been a constant struggle...and believe it or not you that know me here, it's actually FAR better than it used to be when I was in my teens and twenties.
And really, I am not trying to tell you how to run your site(s) or your life for that matter. However, I have learned a little bit through the years of working on my own business (dB Masters) working in corporate America and running this site...a business is a business, keep personal opinions and political leanings out of it. It'll rarely help.
Originally I started the concept of this site about 5 years ago to give me and everyone else a place to go to talk, rant and hang out...and I could keep it seperate from dB Masters the business. Well, now that HRC has out grown dB Masters the reflection has turned around so I kinda shot myself in the foot...
The same goes for you, as an opinionated young man with a big mouth (kinda reminds me of myself back at 19) you would be best served starting a site that is essentially just a big blog. Kind of a personal homepage, where you can rant and spew your left-wing garbage (note: tongue-in-cheek) without it being directly associated with Pith...but still being able to get things off you chest, so to speak.
I'd hate to see you loose possible band signings or affiliates/alliances because they happen to read you rant on your web site and decide, because you believe the things you do...it's not a good way to do business, but many people base friendships and business deals on things like that.
Especially artists are that way, as artists tend to be very passionate people in many ways...and it's funny cuz after some success have you noticed so many singers and actors stand up in the political community and think they are speaking for mankind as a whole? pisses me off. Laura Ingraham wrote a good book about it called "Shut Up and Sing" addressing the very issue of celeb's that think they are political spokespeople.
Just food for thought.
May 13, 2004 09:01 am you know what....
You crazy-*** right wing nutter?
You've more than convinced me. :P
The other guys on that site are 19 year old youthful idiots - just like me.. we're barely feotuses politically speaking and I think the bulk of our fans and people that are likely to see that site are going to be of the same age.. heh.
Yeah - time to go spout my rubbish elsewhere....
cheers dudas.
May 13, 2004 09:05 am Surrender to the dark side, resistence is futile.
Ya know, another thing, speaking of "political feotuses" and such. You might be well surprised how much your attitude and belief structure changes as you age, have a family, gain a career, maybe become more active in your community and such stuff...everything in life is subject to change at any given moment.
Ya know what, at 19 I was a very liberal, left-wing wanker myself. :-)
May 13, 2004 09:28 am hahahaha.... good to know you were once a wanker like me... :)
I'm already quite impressed in how much my beliefs have changed in the past few yeras, let alone an entire lifetime... eesh... scarey thought.
My way of figurin is 'at least I'm doing something' which might sound a bit like a dissent-action wanker, but hey...
May 13, 2004 09:33 am What are you doing exactly? I mean what part of doing something are you speaking about?
- starting a label and trying to fulfill some cool dreams and ideas...agreed, I think it's super cool, I have thought about taking dB Masters, or even HRC into label territory
- or politically speaking? In that case, what are you doing besides spouting off? Unless you are doing things at home we are unaware of such as lobbying or something that actually will help change something?
By the way, that last comment was not meant with any disrespect, just curious as to what you mean...
May 13, 2004 10:27 am a lot of musicians have had some far out political views, as have a lot of other regualr people
its just that the musicians get heard more...
May 13, 2004 10:30 am You think you're crazy check these websites out!!
www.whale.to
www.cuttingedge.org
May 13, 2004 10:43 am I can't resist - here's the king of all nutjobs on the net. 72 pt font, screaming curse words, and an unbelievably weird hypothesis about the 4-in-1 day.
www.timecube.com
from the site...
"I am not allowed to lecture at the word animal
academic institutions, for they fear my wisdom
will expose and indict the pedant hirelings as
betrayers of dumb-*** students - the dung heads
who allow their freedom of speech to be
suppressed without a whimper, unbelieveable.
Word animals will feel the wrath of Cubic curse."
May 13, 2004 10:55 am id love to prove that guy qrong, just to get the $10,000...
May 13, 2004 01:54 pm i'm not able to read your post, willum...it says the topic or post does not exist.
i'd like to read it, though.
May 13, 2004 03:09 pm Fortymile, after an agreement with the other guys at the label, I moved the topic to another forum only veiwable by admin...
Sorry about that - and to be honest all the critique I have recieved is right, while my ideas in the article were okay, the execution was terrible.
I plan to rewrite the article in a more balanced way and when I do - I'll post a link...
db:
[quote]What are you doing exactly? I mean what part of doing something are you speaking about?
- starting a label and trying to fulfill some cool dreams and ideas...agreed, I think it's super cool, I have thought about taking dB Masters, or even HRC into label territory
- or politically speaking? In that case, what are you doing besides spouting off? Unless you are doing things at home we are unaware of such as lobbying or something that actually will help change something?
By the way, that last comment was not meant with any disrespect, just curious as to what you mean...[/quote]
Well to be honest I believe both points to be immeasurably intertwined.
First off - yes, I'm trying to help fulfill the dreams of my band, my friends and their bands...
Also - I figure that the current state of affairs with our planet right now isn't great.
There is too much money with the few ruling elite, and not enough money with all the rest.
The way to slooowly shift the paradigm I think is not the route of picket-lines and rallys, it seems all they do is re-affirm the perception that all the political active people are nutballs.
The way to close the class divide is to stop buying the products that the big multinationals like Warner sell us.
However, the general populace is only going to buy the products they believe to be cheaper and of better quality.
Thus the tough job of making it possible for smaller producers (of any product) to prosper comes into play...
The better quality the 'indie guys' do what they do the more they will be supported, and the less likely people will be to line the pockets of the large companies.
This is not singular to any particular market, and one place where the strangehold is particularily prominent is the music industry - as you well know.
I believe that by doing my little bit to make it possible for smaller producers to compete with the big guys - by promoting and helping indie artists - I will be giving my little nudge, which hopefully will make for long term positive change on this planet as a whole.
I am doing 'by bit' by doing the music thing because I feel passionately about music, and it's what I'm best at.
I guess that is a very simplified version of the kind of idea I'm trying to get across, but that kiiinda sums it up.
And yeah - I don't buy coke or nestle and all that other silly boycotting-type stuff. it can't hurt. :)
To be honest I'd love to see dB/HRC move into record label territory Dan - I recon you've got your head screwed on the right way to do it...
May 13, 2004 03:23 pm Yeah, Willum, I see where you're comin from, I really do. Here is one big issue tho...while it is true that the majority of the wealth is controlled by a minority of the people, it is also true, that in a free country (such as the US and many, many others) it is possible to move social classes and gain money with the proper motivation and execution. Countries such as the former Iraq and dictatorship driven countries there is no such opportunity. It's often not worth it to fight the system, which is what most people choose to do, you are a lot better off learning to use the system...
I do believe you are making a difference, I believe we all make a difference, I make my stands where I feel it will impact, and I don't bother with others. I very much live by the "pick your battles" mentality. Some things, while not being perfect, are simply not worth the time and energy to try to change...
The cause of indies I do think is worth the time, and I think the time is write with the internet and file sharing at a peak, it's a wonderful time to be an indie. And I think it is a picture perfect time to start a label that can embrace the technology of the internet rather than run scared of it.
Unfortunately, it takes more money than most indies have, and not enough can agree about how to execute it to pool enough money to do it...such is the case at the AOIRA right now...everybody has their own ideas and if they all aren't used you get the "I'll take my ball and go home" thing going on (which points back to the passionate nature of artists). Enough of us have to take our artist hat off, put the businessman hat on and act like grown ups to get anything done.
I dig the AOIRA idea, I like workin with Waldo and some of the other folks there, but right now it appears a stale due to the ego issues as mentioned above...sadly. I have my ideas, Waldo has his, you have yours...argh...
May 13, 2004 03:26 pm By the way... I really like that time cube site.
The guy who did it seems to me - to be actually really really intelligent.
Heh.. that might sound a bit weird, but a lot of the ideas he talks about with his 'time-cube' idea have direct relevence with a few Zen and Taoist ideas...
He's just slapped this 'time-cube' name on the top so it's a joke at the same time.
"If I tell a human that his 4-corner
head (nose, 2 ears and back corner)
has only a 1-corner face, the dumb-
*** will say to me - "prove it". He
knows not that his face is a corner"
This seems - to me - to be a reference to the Taoist idea of "not-two", that the front and back of something are just two parts of the one thing, and thus - in reality - the one thing...
ie. I only know who I am in relation to other people, so my existence is defined by what I am not, until you focus down on the self/not self barrier and discover it does not exist, which means that I am everything, and everything is me. :)
heh.
He calls humans the "word animal", which is so damn true it's scary. We have a name for everything and have come to know the names we have for things as more 'true' than the things they are naming....
This is remarkably similar to the ideas of Ken Wilbur: wilber.shambhala.com/, and of the late great Alan Watts before him...
The Time-Cube guy seems to have taken a bunch of really really good ideas like the yin-yang thang... and given them an extra 2 dimensions to make them cubic.
And he seems to have done it 'cause it's funny. :) I recon he's great.
May 13, 2004 03:30 pm Oh yeah - the 4-simultaneous 24 hour Days thing he talks about isn't that crazy either...
Seems to me he's simply saying that in one rotation of the earth there is more than one day.. and there is! I have my day start and finish, someone else has their night start and finish...
If you think about it along those lines there are approximately 6.4 billion days in one rotation of the earth! :D
It's a nice reminder that there are other people on this planet than just yourself... something humbling about that.
May 13, 2004 03:42 pm Yeah dB - it's funny, I'm all left wing and you're all right wing (right? I'm getting confused) and yet we seem to agree on this indie guy thing quite a bit.
And yeah - pick your battles... I agree totally.
That's why I'm doing the indie label thing and not the run-off-to-africa-and-save-the-aids-infected.
I'm cynical enough to believe that the bulk of the 'regular' people are too lazy to join in and do stuff, so it really is going to be up to the few rampant crazies like me to get stuff going...
We've already had the passionate-youngin vs. AOIRA oldie debate and again, seems we've got our own places....
Perhaps if you're looking for more people for the AOIRA cause you should look at getting business-type people instead of musicianu-type people?
If you make it so that they will benifit from it in some way perhaps they'd be liable to give it a go.
Heh.. I'm in the lucky group, there are heaps of disgruntled kids looking to join in the indie thing on the grass-roots level. :P
May 13, 2004 04:05 pm i didnt really read it...the 72 point font was what was giving me the headache.
that and the 'i am superior to you' attitude. comin at ya in large type.
agh
May 13, 2004 05:18 pm Quote:
You think you're crazy check these websites out!!
Wheh... I thought for sure one link would've been mine . NOPE, those "people" ARE nuts !
dB is SO right about letting opinions mess with buisness... but hey, there are a thousand studios out there, and if you want to give your buisness to them over a self-indulgence, then maybe you're in this for purely self-indulgent reasons, and that's perfectly fine... if you're willing to take the hit . Maybe you're looking for a certain 'type' of client ?
I am very indulgent about the process, but I'm not expecting anyone to pay me for it... yet . heh heh heh
"Losing you're mind in the morning, can make you a genius by the afternoon ."
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