Apr 07, 2004 02:20 am Direct box does not change the tone of signal. I think you can use short cable and record without DiBox
How can a direct box improve my bass sound.
Posted on Apr 07, 2004 01:20 am
Bruno
The Quiet Minded
Member Since: Jan 01, 2003
I have recorded bass directly sent into the mixer till now but everybody says I should use a Direct Box. I believe I should but what will it do to the signal? Will it change the sound at all?
I am very curious!
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Apr 07, 2004 02:20 am Direct box does not change the tone of signal. I think you can use short cable and record without DiBox
Apr 07, 2004 05:51 am A direct box (DI) will match the impedance of the signal and will also perform a ground lift if you are suffering from low end hum.
I also used to just record bass straight into a mixer's input (without a DI), but now I mic up the cab with a condensor (my Oktava MK319 - right up against the grill (yes, I know, poor Oktava) and mix that signal with the DI sound from the back of the bass amp.
I EQ the DI'd sound from the bass amp, rolling off everything over 200Hz and compress the hell out of it to achieve a rock solid low end sound, this is then mixed with the Signal from the Oktava (with the low end filter in place, rolling off everything under 100Hz) which has a slight boost around 1.5-3Khz to give it more air - I've found this to provide me with a great bass sound.
jues.
Apr 07, 2004 06:10 am What is a good direct box for the process you describe jues?
Apr 07, 2004 06:32 am I just use the DI out on the back of the bass amp (our bassist uses an Ashdown).
jues.
Apr 07, 2004 06:37 am I use the DI on my bass amp as well, which is an Ampeg (tho I will be offing my Ampeg this week for a BassPOD or a Bass Vamp, which are also good for recording bass direct) Peavey also makes a MAX Bass preamp which is quite nice.
On the cheaper side Rapco and about 1000 other companies make just simple DIBoxes that cost under $40 that is just a simple signal convertor that often work very well. I have a Rapco myself and it works well.
Apr 07, 2004 07:39 am Anyone experimented with the Pod fx (even though it is intended for guitar)? Was trying it out last night, but without great results. I want to get a very bassy sound. Heavy, compressed and sustained. Will keep on fiddling. If anyone found some decent settings let me know.
Apr 07, 2004 07:42 am i always mic the bass cab, direct always sounds sort of sterile to me (note that its probably due to my poor mixing skills and SB sound), while i get more of the warm fuzzy classic vintage tone that we're goin for with an AKG dynamic mic (i always forget the model number... 180s? 150s? somethin with an S)
maybe i will give it another shot next time, cause you guys seem to have great bass sounds, i guess id be better off going out of the bass amp's line out then straight into the computer, correct?
Apr 07, 2004 07:45 am I have used the POD for bass with adequate results using none of the POD effects and compressing the sound before going into the PC.
Dan, don't plug your bass straight in to the PC, go out of a direct out first.
Apr 07, 2004 08:18 am Fishman is the bomb! Made specificaly for bass. Works fabulous on both guitar and double. Has ground lift, phase shift, a very bass friendly compression with depth as well as a 5 band eq. It is serious stuff for bass. Emenities include an amp out and a tuner out as well as XLR for the board. Best I have ever heard. And yes as Jues states, the proper impediance makes a HUGE difference in the tone quality and eveness of dynamics, especially with bass.
Apr 07, 2004 08:21 am I don't believe I have ever heard Walt say "the bomb" before...
Apr 07, 2004 09:21 am Can you let us know what model you are talking about Walt. Maybe a link?
Apr 07, 2004 12:21 pm I use a splitter and run the bass into the amp then to an external DI box, EQ unit and Compressor, and then into the mixer and computer, where I'll add more compression and EQ if needed
Apr 07, 2004 01:13 pm I save "da bomb" for the things that are just "oh god, yes, yes".
service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
That's the link. Don't know how to put it in a thread right. Musicians friend...search for fishman. It is the Fishman Pro EQ Platnum.
Apr 07, 2004 01:25 pm ya know, that makes a lot of sense, i guess i just never really thought about it, ive always been content with the mic'ed sound. ill give it a shot next time, ill still most likely stick with the mic'ed method anyway cause its what im used to, but ya never know thanks
Apr 07, 2004 01:28 pm FYI, that product has been added to the gear bag.
Apr 07, 2004 01:43 pm OK... while we are on the subject of bass. I have very limited tracks. I was thinking about trying this: Running a line in for the bass and laying it down on a track. Then during mixdown, running it through an amp and micing it with a Sennheiser 421. That way I wouldn't be locked into the D.I. and miced sound on the same track. I could take my time with it and move the mic, and EQ it until I was happy with it, rather than trying to rush it with a bass player present. I am copletely in the relm of analog. What would be the best way to acclomplish this? Should I come out of the board and into a D.I. box and then into the head of the amp?
Thanks
Apr 07, 2004 06:20 pm If you're low on tracks you can always "Bounce" down. For example, lets say you had a 4 track tape recorder and you wanted to record one track for bass, one for guitar, one for vocals, and two for drums. Uh oh... you got 5 tracks now. Simple enough, Record the Drums onto however many tracks you want, then bounce it down to one or two tracks, saving three for your guitar, bass, and vocals. Just remember that once it's bounced it's done... so apply all effects and EQ before bouncing and make sure it sounds good pre bounce.
Apr 07, 2004 06:37 pm Thanks Loki.... I understand bouncing, trust me on that. The way I'm talking about doing it I wouldn't have to bounce. I would be combining an already recorded bass signal with a "live" signal during mixdown. If I had a ton of tracks I would just record the "bass D.I." and "bass miced" to two different tracks. But, I am recording with an 8-track. My thinking is that if I just have the bass player run through a d.i. and record that to one track. Then during mixdown I can EQ the bass and combine it with a mic signal coming from the board and going into an amp. Then I can combine the two signals and EQ until my hearts content.... and I would be getting a d.i. and mic signal but still only be using one bass track.
Let me simplify it. I want to run an already recorded bass track into the head of an amp. My question is: what is the best way to do that?
Apr 07, 2004 07:13 pm In theory yes, but you see the problem is once again with impedance matching - the bass amp is expecting to recieve the output of the bass' pickup and not a recorded track, as a result it will more than likely not handle the dynamics (playing style wise) of the signal correctly.
I guess it's worth a shot, but it's not how I would personally go about it.
jues.
Apr 07, 2004 09:28 pm Ya, Gotta agree with Jues. Imputs to an amp head are engineered for a pick up not a line out. Why not just tap the DI into the amp head and mic the cab at the same time you capture the DI signal? I know it would limit the liberty of playing with the micing, but it would preclude putsing with a lot of electrical matching.
Apr 08, 2004 02:47 am Did I understand correctly? Seems many use this:
BassAmpOut ->DiBox -> Pod -> Mixer.
I never used Pod (saw only in photo :), has it balanced input and output?
Or maybe you put it into insert of a mixer?
Apr 08, 2004 07:49 am lol, I think you got the wrong end of the stick edvo...
BASS AMP --> BASS AMP DI OUTPUT --> SOUNDCARD INPUT
and also
BASS AMP --> MICROPHONE --> PREAMP --> SOUNDCARD INPUT.
jues.
Apr 08, 2004 08:22 am Or if you are using a DI / Preamp like the Fishman (ok I really like the thing.
Bass -> Fishman -> Board (Via fishman XLR out)
Bass -> Fishman -> Amp (Via fishman pre out) -> microphone -> Board
Apr 08, 2004 11:49 am Hummmmm.... What if I were to go from a line out of the board and into an input on a power amp then into the amp itself? Then I wouldn't have the impedance problem would I? Of course that would eliminate the EQing section of the head as well it's added coloration. (is coloration a word?? LOL) I would at least be able to EQ it from the board and capture the sound of the cab via a mic.
It's difficult with only 8-tracks. I'm sure that a lot of you are recording with a lot more than that. I'm just trying to gain some control without committing it to tape and being locked into "it is what it is now".
Apr 08, 2004 09:26 pm Im just gonna stay outa the way of all this as it seems well handled by ther rest of the gang. I just wanted to throw in a comment on the Fishman I have the little brother of that same pre in my electrocuastic and it is Da Bomb as Walt put it.
And as a side not, I have ween Walt use that phrase several times here at HRC.
Apr 09, 2004 01:12 am EEEEEyoWWWWW! Karetaker...carefull!
Line out of board to power amp ok... Out end of power amp into guitar amp verrrrry bad! Big boom! Sizzle...Fry... Snap crackel pop!
The input of a guitar amp is a special beast. It is made specially for guitar pick ups. Not line level, not mic level, definately not 100W output level of a power amp. There lies the "hitch in the giddy up". Now you can put the output of a board at line level into the final amp section of a guitar amp if the guitar amp is divided but as you mentioned you will be bypassing the any conditioning on the guitar amp which happens in the pre amp section of the guitar amp. You would do better to go board to power amp to speaker cabinate if you don't need the pre amp effects on the guitar amp. You need a step down isolation transformer or similar device between the board and the guitar amp to get a good match, and I don't know where you would find one for that purpose.
Apr 09, 2004 06:21 am Kare,
Why not just record the DI? If you are limited for tracks then that's the solution I'd go for (or just do some clever bouncy boune.)
jues.
Apr 09, 2004 11:25 am Walt... You misunderstand me. I was talking about eliminating the head and just using a power amp and a bass cab. Not going into the head itself. I may be insane, but I ain't crazy...LOL! Sorry... It was the way I had it worded. I meant going into the cab. not the amp itself. But, now it has me curious.... I wonder if the output trasisters would explode when I pluged it in or would they actually last for a note or two...LOL!
I don't remember exaclty where, but I've read or heard about this technique somewhere. I was just trying to open some options up. We were just in the studio recording about a month ago onto 24 track analog (Otari). We used two tracks for bass. One D.I. and one miced. I really loved the way the bass came out. However, it did take some time and blending to get it right.
jues.... I do just record the DI at this point. I guess you guys are right... the best way in my situation would be to blend them onto one track.... or bounce it, but I hate to bounce anything.
Thanks guys... I apprectiate the input.
Apr 09, 2004 11:44 am Or, perhaps a Straight DI and a DI'd amp modeller like a Bass POD or Bass Vamp...might give you a similar blend of sounds if using a nice amp/cab model...
Apr 10, 2004 12:38 am Thanks for clearing that up Karetaker. Probably my mistake in intrepretation, but I FWEEKED out when I read it and had visions of fireballs dancing in my head anlong with shreaded speaker cones and projectile magnets treversing the room. And of course the chared Whiley Coyotee figure holding a bass when the smoke cleared.
Apr 10, 2004 11:17 am All natural ingrediants! No presertives added. Most likely permenant transformations from the 60's.
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