Apr 05, 2004 08:08 am theres some vaid points there...
fun file-sharing article
Posted on Apr 05, 2004 12:49 am
MinkusMaz
Bane of All Existence
Member Since: Mar 27, 2003
A Heretical View of File Sharing (New York Times):
www.nytimes.com/2004/04/0...cff8b2790c50c04
i love it.
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Apr 05, 2004 08:08 am theres some vaid points there...
Apr 05, 2004 10:18 am That is interesting. I am guessing we have all seen good points and good mathmatics working in both directions. We all know that if you REALLY REALLY want something, you can ALWAYS make your checkbook balance so you can afford it. :-)
What always seems to be forgotten is that the owners of the music are not making it available for download, unauthorized parties are, which makes it wrong. Regardless of how it affects sales.
At least thats my take on it.
Apr 05, 2004 10:44 am well i think the interesting thing is that while you are right morally, dB, articles like this state that there are no real solid financial consequences to file sharing. you can still debate over whether it is right or wrong to simply download someone's music, but this throws a gigantic wrench in the efforts of the music industry to quell P2P stuff. their estimates on how much money they are losing are pure smoke, according to this. so the legal and accounting actions that they are taking to keep themselves financially viable have been reasonably undermined. i wonder if we will be seeing a lot of this.
Apr 05, 2004 10:49 am Quote:
you can still debate over whether it is right or wrong to simply download someone's music
I see what you are saying, but no, it's indisputable whether it's right or wrong, it is wrong to take someone's property without there consent, end of story, legally and morally.
What IS debatable is what the finacial impact is. Without proof of substantial losses from the theft (and it is theft) they will have a harder time getting substantial rewards from fines, additional laws being passed and the like, to help their cause.
So, what it comes down to, sadly, is who is cooking the books...typical Americana
That said, I do totally agree with you that the article is interesting, and actually, the whole battle currently going on is fascinating to me. I don't use file sharing, I buy CD's when I want them, so it doesn't affect me much either way.
My personal take is if the industry would bring CD prices down to 8-10 dollars for the typical CD (like the could), the problem would largely solve itself.
Apr 05, 2004 11:11 am i believe that the moral argument is relative. it seems like many artists wouldn't mind if more people were able to appreciate their music, but they have been operating under the conclusion that this new type of access directly undermines their incomes. take out the debilitating financial factor, and a lot of artists would re-evaluate whether or not they are into this. plus, perhaps one could argue that this access brings up ticket/merch sales, much like i heard one artist talk about in an interview (i think it was either melissa etheridge or joni mitchell). then you might say that it comes down to an issue of whether or not the artist chooses to share.
Apr 05, 2004 11:48 am Oh, ABSOLUTELY. If the artist wants to share (assuming the artist actually owns the right to his or her music) then it should absolutely be available. That has been my point all along...though I may not have expressed it directly in THIS thread, I have said so before. Ultimately, it's the owners choice whether or not to share...to some kid with Kazaa or LimeWire.
Thats the rub, P2P technology is a GREAT technology, and could very much have positive impact in many areas, but it is being labelled a bad thing because of who uses it the most...people stealing stuff.
Unfortunately, the moral argument is relative, as some people have no morals...or at least not this one.
Apr 05, 2004 09:51 pm I think we are seeing more artists who do put their music up for download. Some are even putting their videos up as well. Of course most arent putting up entire CD's as that would definately pu them in the hole, but maybe not. Most popular bands make their real money on touring and live shows, which includes the sale of their merchandise at the shows. That is where they really get their cash. The record label take the majority of the record sales and that is why they are so pissed of about P2P.
I agree totally that stealing is stealing realy. But take a look back when Napster was in its hayday and the law was just about to crush them hard. Brittney Spears was about to release her third CD, it was for three weeks prior to release in the store the number one downloaded entire CD on the P2P networks, now someone explain to me just how the entire CD got out there, an inside job from the record label maybe? Anyway, when it was released to the public three weeks later, it broke 7 sales records in less then 2 days.
Now I would like a record company executive to explain how the P2P sharing of that entire disc hurt the sales of that disc.
Only an example, I am sure it isnt all like that, but that is one hell of an example of how P2P probably helped her sell that many CD's.
I on the other hand will stick to finding music that I can get without the P2P. But on the other hand, you can type in the title of a song on the P2P networks and find a huge number of new bands no one has ever heard of doing either a cover of said tune or it might be something completely differant, and if they dont suck, you can find more of their music that they want you to listen to and download. So if they ever do have a CD out you might just want to buy it.
A good example here is I have coolo's entire first CD of music, as well as all of Flames music and several others. If they produce a CD for sale, I for one will surely buy the real thing as I prefer to have that tangable thing in my hands, cover art and all. And I do believe that many others like me are out there, but we are not the ones being interviewed or counted on these industiry surveys.
Between all the CD's,Vinyl and cassettes I own I have over 3500 differant titles. And I still am in favor of some kind of P2P network to let those who wish to share their music be able to do it. But indeed there needs to be some limits.
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