Help Copying Old Vinyl Records
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Posted on Nov 27, 2003 02:12 pm
PorpoiseMuffins
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
Hey guys,
I'm struggling with a question here. I'm trying to think what's the best way to copy a bunch of records from the line out on my player to my computer (Through my Delta 44). Should I put it directly into the Delta 44, through my mixer first, or through my ART TPS preamp? I'm thinking that I should just go straight into the sound card to prevent the possibility of introducing any noise into the recording-- but then I have to normalize the wave in Sonar which will bring up the noise floor anyways, right? Also, I'm thinking about whether I should be recording it at +4 or -10.
Aaaaarrrgghh... Gain staging drives me crazy!
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olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Nov 27, 2003 03:32 pm I think it will be obvious whether you need to use +4 or -10 by the level of the signal. However for a turntable I think it might be better to take the signal from a preamp because the magnetic cartridge/sylus are pretty low output and need a preamp stage. If you have a quality stereo system with mag phono inputs it might even be best to take the line out from it, since the preamps in those are tailored to a mag phono input.
As for recording the album I was doing some reading on that a while back and most of the recommendations were to start with recording the entire album to one session and break it apart from there.
Dan
Nov 27, 2003 03:58 pm Yeah, basically I was asking whether I should use +4 with a preamp or -10 just direct into the sound card. Well, it looks like I decided to go with the second option. I don't think it will sound any different either way, actually. I'm just being unnecessarily picky. I mean, the player is dusty and ancient, and so are the records, so it's not like you'll even hear a little bit of noise over all those pops and scratches!
Thanks
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Nov 27, 2003 05:07 pm why not run the phono outs (guessing they'd be RCA) to the TAPE INs of your MX1604A? then you can adjust the volume no problem, up or down, to get max signal allowed by your sound card. turn down the faders on all the other channels and it won't be that noisy at all, especially if you can use balanced cables from the MAIN OUTs to your sound card.
vinyl restoration is cool because it gives you a chance to say that you "digitally remastered" something. i hope you end up doing some real remastering though, cool plugins, give it life!
Nov 27, 2003 07:34 pm Well, that was one of things I considered in my first post. I was just debating whether it was better to boost before it went digital or after.
About the remastering-- I was debating whether I would do much to it afterwards or not. But these are just some old classic Christmas records that I want to preserve for nostalgic purposes, so I actually kind of wanted to keep the pops, clicks, and mechanical noise for the most part. I did do a little EQ work on the high end. Just a roll off to take away some of the annoying hi-frequency distortion and hiss. that's all. Oh- and I normalized it. I didn't maximize or anything because I wanted to keep it the way it was before. I may go back and experiment later, though :)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 27, 2003 10:23 pm NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!
You need to use a real phono preamp or you will just be giving yourself a headache trying to figure out were all the noize came from. Either get a small dedicated phono preamp, use the tape outs of a good home stereo amp, or get yourself a small DJ mixer and use the main outs from that into your sound card. You will save yourself alot of work if you follow this advice. I have tried it several ways and truly the DJ mixer is the best solution, or the dedicated preamp made for use with mag phono cartridges.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Nov 28, 2003 12:14 am Ditto! Streight off the cartridge is a different cat than other line inputs. Definately use a phono preamp or go through a good stereo and record from the record outs of one of the tape channels. I use my board to be able to adjust the volume prior to hitting my sound card. Get no appreciable noise.
I just did a stack of Bill Cosby albums for my daughter...actually son-in-law. Call around and see if you can find a place that will clean them for you prior to recording them. I found a small local shop that will do them for U.S. $1.50 per album with a professional cleaning machine. BIG difference. If you have Cool Edit Pro use the pop remover and noise reduction patches, but carefully with some expermintation. That helped a lot. And finally, remastering is a matter of taste. Personally, I did not remaster most of mine. I wanted to preserve the origional flavor of the recordings. Just normalized them for the most part.
Nov 28, 2003 08:10 am Oh gee... What is a phono pre-amp?
The outputs that I am calling "direct outs" on the record player are actually labeled "Tape Outs" if that changes anything...
The player is also an amplifier, so I could go out the amp's output too if that's a better idea.
I don't know, it sounds fine to me, I mean, the signal isn't rediculously low or anything.
Nov 28, 2003 08:55 am I am guessing you are kinda young, eh Muffins? Back when I was young every stereo reciever had a phono in jack, most don't now. These ins were just typical RCA jacks, but in addition there was a ground wire that had to be grounded to get any decent sound at all. In addition, the preamps IN the reciever were slightly differetn than for the rest of the reciever, exactly how I am not sure.
If you go look at an app like Steinberg Clean, DOH! My bad, PINNACLE Clean now, since Pinnacle bought Steinberg, the higher end version of the app comes WITH a phono pre (at least it did when Steinberg was solo), or, look online you can get them...and I don't think they cost very much. I few years ago I did quite a few record cleanups, and getting the record into the PC is the biggest pain in the butt, but the cleanup, once you are all digital is pretty easy with the right plugins
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Nov 28, 2003 12:10 pm Yep the cheaper stereo systems usually had a ceramic cartridge in the turntable with ceramic phono inputs and the good ones had magnetic with inputs for either.
Dan
Nov 28, 2003 02:21 pm When did Pinnacle buy Steinberg? Gee... everyone is being bought out these days...
So... what you're saying is that I need a phono preamp because otherwise it will be really noisy?
I wish I had a clue about electronics. It's a real bummer-- they don't even teach that kind of thing at my school (only 250 kids there).
And from that last comment you can probably guess that, yes, I am pretty young. 17 at the moment :)
Thanks
Nov 28, 2003 02:57 pm Okay, I'm really confused. I know nothing about this at all...
The record player is also a stereo amplifier that can be switched from "Phono" to "Radio" to "Aux." It has both "Tape outs" and "Speaker outs" in the form of RCA jacks. I went with the Tape outs because they seemed to give me an unamplified signal unaffected by the volume knob on the amp. The speaker outs worked just fine too, actually.
What's so bad about the signal coming out of the "tape outs?"
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 28, 2003 03:02 pm OOOOOOOOOOOOOH. I think I knwo what he has. The unit Porp has is one of those were the turntable is actually part of the amp and tuner system. You know like the old console jobs only portable. If that is the case porp, then yes you can use the tape outs from the turntable amp unit and go direct into your mixer or sound card. As Walt said, I did the same when using a dedicaterd phono preamp but now I just go straight out of the DJ mixer into the Delta. Make sure and leave yourself a little headroom when you record it so there is room to normalize as vinyl does not have the pristene level control of CD and your wave could fluctuate a bit.
Nov 28, 2003 03:11 pm Ah ha! Yes, that would be it. It's a combo deal. Okay, great-- That thing is actually the only stereo amplifier I have in my house!
