+4, consumer, -10?
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Posted on Aug 17, 2003 08:41 pm
PorpoiseMuffins
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
Sorry to ask this... But could someone please fill me in on how the whole variable signal outputs/inputs (+4, -10) on equipment is supposed to work? I'm totally confused. I need like a little class session on this or something...
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juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Aug 18, 2003 02:36 am It's simple - just keep all your equipment running at the same level. +4dB is intended for "consumer" useage, whilst -10dB is considered pro. The difference is simply the volume of the signal and thus the amount of headroom that a device will have when dealing with it.
Depending on the quality of your gear, you may find -10dB too quiet, which in turn results in hiss from your mixer / outboard when you boost the signal gain - in this case, just stick to +4dB.
jues.
Aug 18, 2003 12:57 pm Thanks. I thought that +4 was "pro" and -10 was "consumer." +4 seems to have a higher output level and lower input (less sensitive) if that makes since (So you have to boost your original signal more).
So if I have my original source set to work with +4, and then my mixer running at +4 and my soundcard at -10... I never have to boost my signal so I don't get static...? I'm sure there is some sort of flaw to my thinking. Please correct me :)
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Aug 18, 2003 06:28 pm As I said, pro is at -10dB, the signal is quieter which in turn gives you more headroom, but obviously results in more gain being required, thus you need "pro" gear to keep things from becoming hissy.
jues.
Aug 19, 2003 12:53 am you've got to be kidding me! are you serious? i've always heard the exact opposite.. I thought the additional headroom of +4dB afforded you *better* signal to noise
This completely flip-flops everything I previously understood about line level standards. Thanks for straightening that out ;O) -j
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Aug 19, 2003 05:25 am Oh No, I I just did a check - I am completly wrong on this. :(
oops :D
Now I am confused - the way I thought of it was completly screwed. :D
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Aug 19, 2003 06:06 am christ, if jues doesnt know, what hope have any of us got?
lol
Aug 19, 2003 07:00 am hehehe, I knew, and was watching this thread with interest. If somebody would not have corrected it by this morning I was going to...I just wanted to let the thread play out and see what came of it.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Aug 19, 2003 09:58 am Okay, so if thats the case (+4dB offering a better S/M Rato {which it clearly would}) - why does consumer run at -10dB under this?
hmmm :|
jues.
Aug 19, 2003 10:54 am Okay, I think I get this now. Now my question is what is my Behringer MX Eurorack mixer running at? +4 or -10? Or does it matter?
Aug 19, 2003 10:56 am Right now I'm running everything at -10 except I don't know what I'm running my mixer at... My thought is that -10 will give me less hiss as Jues said before, except I guess he had it reversed.
Aug 19, 2003 04:25 pm okay phew!
i'm positive the Behringer mixers output at +10. You can read the manual and specs for your model at behringer.com
Aug 19, 2003 04:30 pm Do you mean -10? I couldn't seem to find anything about it in the manual, except that the main XLR outputs can be switched from +4 to mic level. However, I don't use the XLR outputs. If it's true that my mixer is running at -10, then it turns out that all my equipment is running correctly in the first place :)
Aug 19, 2003 06:40 pm oops! thanks,
i mean +4
early morning sillies.
if your mixer is at +4 and everything else is -10 then your mixer is sending your other equipment too-hot of a signal while the other equipment is sending your mixer too weak of one.
sorry boot that!
Aug 19, 2003 08:00 pm Hmmm... Interesting. I haven't noticed any problems like that, but I'll have to look into it some more. I'll try some different stuff. So if all my stuff is set at +4, then all my meters should be reading the same thing, right?
Aug 20, 2003 11:58 am It doesn't seem to be running at either -10 or +4! It looks to be running at the special "consumer" level (The one available in the Delta 44 control panel) in between both -10 and +4. Perhaps this setting allows me to use either -10 or +4 on everything else. I think I'll leave things at -10 like I have so I don't need to boost signals a lot (or distort at the mixer stage). I can't go and set my compressor to consumer, since there is no switch for that...
Aug 20, 2003 12:52 pm hey whatever works for you. i've heard your work, and it sounds alright
