Song Protection?
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Posted on Jun 01, 2003 02:16 am
St. Dave
Member Since: Dec 23, 2002
I'm starting to record my band's first full-length album, and I'm worry about protecting my songs. I got a submission packet from BMI once, but the lingo scared me; it looked to me like I'd be giving away the rights of my music to them. Can anybody fill me in on what goes on with one of these companies or (even better) give me suggestions for protecting my compositions? And how much, if any, money, will it cost?
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MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Jun 01, 2003 03:10 am it's called copyrighting. the official way to do it is with the Library of Congress, but that's $30 per song or $60 per compilation or something like that. best way to do it when you aren't monetarily gifted is with a "poor man's copyright." burn a CD and include that with info about the recording (date, song names, musicians, whatever) in an envelope. send that to yourself certified mail from the post office. you'll have to sign for it. keep that in your records and never open it.
Jun 01, 2003 06:18 am But what about groups like BMI and ASCAP?
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Jun 01, 2003 11:16 am BMI and ASCAP collect money from venues and the media to get money for performance royalties. unless you are a band with a record contract that's going to get you a lot of promo and a lot of sales, i don't see why you'd need to register with them at all. if you DO have that contract, then i'd think your publisher would be taking care of this.
Jun 01, 2003 10:54 pm well... true and not true. these music organizations do collect your money for record sales, they also collect money for sindicated radio in north america. there are companies in citys that research waves all around the world for you to see where you music is being played because if there is you have money coming to you. But in order for you to get played in other countries you must be a part of one of these organizations. my catolouge is registered with BMI, you could join both, but there is no real reason to. make records of all your song writing and publishing rights and percetages of how they will be distributed. use ink signatures and save everything you release . your catolouge can be then sold to the organization, or a private buyer for 7X what it is actually worth or more after youve been registered for 15 years or something like that. I know a guy whos like 50 something and gets a phat check every month man. he was looking to sell his bmi cat for a nice 7 digits. but he wants to hold on to it. its like a musical investment.... i honestly advise every musician to do it. contract or no contract if a song you own is played anywhere in the world money is owed to you.
glynbMember
Since: Dec 16, 2002
Jun 02, 2003 06:43 am "best way to do it when you aren't monetarily gifted is with a "poor man's copyright." burn a CD and include that with info about the recording (date, song names, musicians, whatever) in an envelope. send that to yourself certified mail from the post office. you'll have to sign for it. keep that in your records and never open it."
No. Apparently I've been informed on several occasions by various people that this method of proving copyright doesn't stand up in court. There's a major flaw with the idea. Basicaly i could send myself an empty enveleope then a copule of years later tamper with it, open it up, and insert my covers of hit songs from now and claim I wrote them before the artist concerned. It's an 'old wives' tale I'm afraid.
If you live in the U.S $60 to get a proper copyright proof of your material lodged with the LOC is a small price to pay IMO. And well worth doing if you plane to put out your songs on the internet where the whole world has access. What if you come upo with a killer idea for a song, don't bother with copyrighting it, and then a year or so later hear something identical on the radio. Your envelope posted to yourself isn't going to defeat the arguments of expensive record company lawyers in a court case beleive me!
Jun 02, 2003 06:49 am The owner/operator of NoWhereRadio has a lot of experience in this situation, and has stated that he has seen that type of copyright hold up in court on several occassions. I am skeptical myself of this type of copyright, and would never use it personally, but he has stated he has seen it work with his own two eyes, and I have heard others say the same thing.
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Jun 02, 2003 12:03 pm yeah i was expecting at least a few people to express skepticism of this. i'm not fully convinced that it would work (it would take a solid court case to prove it to me), but i had information from a reliable source (lawyer) that it does work.
glynbMember
Since: Dec 16, 2002
Jun 03, 2003 06:37 am I'm still sceptical, sorry. I would need to see the specific details of the case in order to be convinced of this. For example the sealed envelope may have been lodged with a lawyer for years in his safe and he also swears in court its never been opened and there are loads of witnessess to the fact that the litigant had played the songs live prior to the pirate version coming out. What I'm getting at is the poor man's copyright might have been some 'additional' proof but not the only proof.
Most opinions I've ever read are that it just DOESN't work. But if you want to take the risk in order to save $60, well go ahead! What's $60 in order to get a full CD of copyright protection, virtualy nothing!
Jun 03, 2003 07:10 am I'm not trying to convince anyone, and honestly I don't really care if anyone believes it or not, the thread is about song protection, so I added the two cents of the experience of someone that I know.
Personally, I would never use it, but people have and people have had it work for them.
MurphyAn outburst for perfectionMember
Since: Dec 11, 2002
Jun 03, 2003 09:55 am I would go for the $60 thing myself.
Would just a quick acoustic poor quality recording do, As long as the melody and lyrics are audible?
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Jun 03, 2003 11:26 am if you're going to copyright and spend cash on it, you would be better off sending a LEAD SHEET (staff paper with melody, harmony [chords], and lyrics). you'd need to get a PA (primary author) copyright, since that's the one that tells who owns a song. the SR (sound recording) copyright just tells who owns that particular recording of it. so if it's not a final-quality recording that will be released to lots of people and stores, etc, then you're wasting your time sending in a CD.
$60 is a lot. if you're going to do it, better be SURE that this album is going places.
klausMember
Since: May 17, 2003
Jun 03, 2003 12:33 pm does anyone know what the equivilent of this service is in the uk, as I've just sent my cd to myself registered post this morning, and now you're all making me panic!
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Jun 03, 2003 12:42 pm why panic? everyone's got to get real on what songs need to be copyrighted. demos that you do at home don't need it. if you are doing a real recording that is being distributed and sold to LOTS of people, that's when you get to work.
Jan 24, 2007 01:22 pm I dug up this ancient thread because I found these video lectures from MIT on the subject, during my work. They should answer a few of the questions on copyright law that I've seen on the threads here.
ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electr...tures/index.htm
You'll need Real player to watch them.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Jan 24, 2007 07:47 pm I've read of the poor man's copyright holding up in court as well. The problem comes when you want to collect monetary damages, you can't unless you have a copyright filed with the the US Copright office (for the US of course) other countries may vary.
Dan
Jan 24, 2007 08:34 pm www.copyright.gov/register/performing.html
I'm in the process of copyrighting my entire song collection. Printing out the lyrics, singing demo versions into the computer and making a CD. Copyrighting it as a collection: "The Collected Works of Jim Nelson, Volume 1"
Over thirty songs. Will cost me a total of $45 plus postage.
And I'm a poor man...
