Best & worst production opinions
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Posted on May 02, 2003 09:23 am
Tadpui
I am not a crook's head
Member Since: Mar 14, 2003
Now that I've got productions and recording techniques on my mind, I'm noticing so much more about every song and every album I listen to. Namely, I'm starting to notice just how good and how bad the production is on some of the music I've been listening to lately.
For instance:
OK Computer, Radiohead - There is so much happening at almost every instant on this CD and it never sounds muddled or anything. The production decisions all fit the mood of the music, and it all comes together very well IMO.
Sea Change, Beck - this CD is ruined by its over-production. The songwriting is ho-hum, but would be a lot more entertaining with Beck's old-fashioned "just threw it together on the 4 track after a few beers" production on his earlier albums. Instead, the arrangements are all drowned in strings and reverb.
Those are just a couple that I've listened to lately and really noticed the things that I've learned about here: instrument placement in the mix, effects, and the EQs of everything.
I know that I see several Dark Side of the Moon references coming, but what albums do you all think exemplify good and bad production decisions?
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WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 02, 2003 10:16 am Congradulations!
You are well on your way to "golden ear" status! It is bitter sweet isn't it? Some of my old favorites are like, well, not so good now days.
I'm affraid that I am not going to help you much as far as production as I preveice that you would probably not relate to the genre I will reference. Alegria, Cirque du Soleil is very well produced in my opinion. As is Soul Food by Cyrus Chestnut. Both are increadable ear candy! The sonics are so clean and pure that you can get lost in every note. Obviously the producers had a lot of fabulous material to start with making their job easy in a sense.
As far as worst, that is rough for me. I hear a lot of "worst" on the radio, and quite frankly I don't persue it any further than to hit the "delete key" in the memory bank. So I really can't site an example. It's kinda like "Oh God that noise hurts!" and a signal goes from the brain stem to hit the scan button.
May 02, 2003 11:30 am This is one of my favorite things to do now! Picking apart the production of commercial CDs definitely opens my ears to things I would not have previously heard. A couple of examples of good production that come to mind for me:
Incubus - Morning View
It think the production on this one is outstanding. Everything is super crisp and punchy. Vocals are right out front but not sitting "on top" of the mix. This record is a vast improvement over the production of Make Yourself, a record that I very much love, but have come to consider of pretty mediocre production.
Coldplay - Rush of Blood to the Head
This one has just the right combination of crisp sound and washy belligerance. Lots of ambient sounds that at first sound like keyboards, but turn out to be interesting applications of effects on guitar. They do a great job with doubling Chris Martin's vocals in only the right spots and the whole record has a sweet, milky quality to it, but without being at all muddy.
I'll have to think about some examples of bad production that I've noticed. I can't think of any worth noting right now - but I know there are lots! And you definitely got my attention by mentioning OK Computer. Definitely one of my all time favorite records - pure genius from end to end!
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
May 02, 2003 03:44 pm Walt:
I know what you mean...before I really analyzed the things I listened to, I liked a lot of badly mixed stuff. I remember in high school Dangerous Toys released an album that was, even to my ears then, the WORST mix ever released to the public (does anybody else remember Hellacious Acres?). I'm kind of ashamed to evem remember it myself :)
Ninja:
I just discovered that album less than a year ago, and I was absolutely blown away by it. I'd been avoiding modern music for years, I was stuck in the 70's for a while. That album absolutely propelled me into newer music!
Another shining example of great mixing that I just remembered is "The Moon and Antarctica" from Modest Mouse. It's another 'busy' album with lots going on, but everything has its place in the mix. In particular "The Stars are Projectors" and "The Cold Part".
A less fancy example of something that I've really enjoyed lately is "Either/Or" from Elliot Smith. I can recognize that its over-compressed, but again the production fits the material, and there are intracies there that you don't notice until you're listening for them.
An example of terrible mixing is just about anything from Sparklehorse. The vocals are blatantly over-compressed. I love Mark Linkous' writing, but he needs an engineer to slap his hand every time he reaches for that knob!
May 02, 2003 04:00 pm Another great one that you would probably like is Elbow. I'm blanking the name of the record right now, but they do some very cool, eclectic stuff and it all fits right in the mix.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
May 04, 2003 10:31 am anything by paul weller i think is especially well produced...definately something im aspiring to match one day. cotton mather are brilliant also - and at the minute im surprising myself with what im managing to come out with!
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
May 04, 2003 10:39 am just looking through my cd collection now and theres loads of production styles that i really like...including:
The La's : The La's . brilliant lofi sixties sounding production. not surprising though, considreing it was recorded on sixties ex-abbey road 4 track recorders
The White Stripes : The White Stripes. real spacious sounding guitars and drums thanks to a touch of reverb...and some nice distored effects on the vocal parts
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club : BRMC. Kinda wall of sound with, again, al load of reverb and echo and interweaving of guitar parts in and out of others. plus 'Whatever Happened To My Rock N Roll' is one of my favourite songs of all time
The Sex Pistols : Never Mind The Bollocks. Possibly the best produced of all the punk record (anyone think of a better one?)
and jefferey lewis, and some of the stones and beatles stuff, and most of nirvanas work...and so on and so on up to infinity!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 04, 2003 09:33 pm I can think of several for either side, but right now I will say Lucinda Williams/Rightously. It is probably one of the straightest forward tracks I have heard put on the radio in a very long time. If you havent heard this track yet, or her. Try to get a listen to it somewhere. It is just a straight rocker, very simple, guitar driven. They have it so her voice and the guitar come in and out together so the tune never looses your attention. The guitar riffs are great, in just the right places, and there is no sugar coating to this track at all. Just a bit of reverb on her voice, and the guitar swims in it, no I should say is drowning it, but in a very good way.
Geez, did I go a little overboard on that or what? Anyway give the track a listen and youll see what I mean.
Oh and Walt, I love Cirque du Soleil, I have been to 7 of their shows, and taken the kids to one. They had a special that aired on PBS a couple months ago and ran all the pieces they could for 12 hours, I and the boyz just sat there and watched without moving. the music is amazing both live and recorded. They are one of the tightest bands, that sound like an orchestra on the face of the planet. everything they do is flawless. Many years ago I got to meet their primary keyboardist, and he is amazing. Racks of samplers and synths with every imaginable sound available, and it is like watching a wizard cast a wpell when he plays them as he never misses a beat switching from sound to sound and trigering samples with the touch of a magician as he goes.
Peace
May 05, 2003 12:18 pm Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream
Probably one of my favorite albums ever. Everything is about is perfect to my ears. I enjoy the wide range of dynamics you'll find, where a songs gets so quiet you're forced to listen carefully, then BLAM, it's rocking again. I think they chose the pefect song order. Everything about this album is like it should be.
One thing I can't stand about most of the CDs coming out today, is the over compression, like there's some new rule where louder is better. Staind - Break the Cycle is a good example of just TOO LOUD. it tires my ears when I try to listen. I don't think I've ever made it all the way thru lsitening to this record.
May 05, 2003 12:37 pm Yep, I've seen a lot of that too. In fact, I recently read a very interesting article about this trend.
www.prorec.com/prorec/art...6256C2E005DAF1C
It definitely creates an interesting dilema when mastering my own stuff and comparing to commerical CDs. I mean, who wants to be the quiestest CD in the stack? ANd then again, who want their CD to be completely lacking in dynamics?
May 05, 2003 01:08 pm great article, thanks!
May 05, 2003 01:37 pm excellent article indeed. hes right.. no one wants to have the quietest cd ever, but clipping is unacceptable in my book.
May 05, 2003 01:58 pm Yeah, it definitely introduces a fine line between too quiet and too compressed. Based on that article, I've tried to become a lot more selective in what commercial CDs I use as references. When I started importing audio from commercial CDs into Sound Forge and looking at the waveforms, I was shocked at how many of them looked as if they had been hit with a limiter all the way accross. Definitely an eye opener!
May 05, 2003 02:03 pm I am continually amazed by how many clients just want things louder, regardless of anything else.
"Louder is better" which really sucks. With things like the L1 I can get an extra 15db out of a recording, which they are happy with, seemingly not caring about the fact that all emotions and dynamics have been totally sucked out of the recording.
For mastering, among other things that are irrelevant to this conversation, I use a touch of L1 and a touch of Magneto. To much of either are destructive, but a nice pinch of both can do some really amazing things. Actually, often times I just use the default Magneto settings. All ya have to do is open the plugin and not touch a thing.
There is a fine line between being loud and being good. I for one don't equate volume with sound quality, I outgrew that belief a long time ago...
May 05, 2003 02:15 pm I'll drink to that! Have you tried using Vintage Warmer instead of Magneto? I've heard great things about it, but haven't had a chance to put it to the test myself yet.
May 05, 2003 02:22 pm Ya, I have played around with it, it is awesome, but it's kinda nice to just open Magneto and let it do it's thing. Vintage Warmer gives too many options, I need time to get to learn it better before I use it on any client's stuff ;-)
May 05, 2003 03:44 pm bye the way Tadpui, if you think you were moved by OK Computer, then you REALLY need to go see Radiohead live when they come to your neck of the woods. Their live show is nothing short of amazing!
