Mix not filling the spectrum
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Posted on Mar 12, 2006 10:37 am
crux
Typo Szar
Member Since: Jul 04, 2002
My mixes are (no ego here) slowly getting better, seems like everytime i do another one i get a bit closer to what i think is a "commercial" standard. Anyhow, one problem im having now is in cubase when i mixdown to audio wav and bring it home or to my car or watever, it seems like teh songs r all in the lower registers of the spectrum, with only a few spikes on teh high end now and then, and so teh mixes sound really low and forget about the bass, coz it rattles my windows. Also no matter how much i eq them they just stay aruond taht range as if the extent of my cubase eq is only within a few low frequencies, this is really killing my quest for "space" coz its mushing up all my guitars.
I went into each track and i boosted all the highs where i could, and i even shot the whole wav file back into cubase and pulled up the highs.
Im mixing down 16 bit could that be part of it? On the computer where im mixing down it fills out on the speakers, and sounds absolutely great. But on every other system it suffers this big problem.
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Mar 12, 2006 10:46 am I would suggest the first thing to look at is the room you mix in and the speakers you monitor with. Your problem suggests that your mixing environment is artificially high, so you mix the highs down, creating an overly low sound everywhere else...
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Mar 12, 2006 11:58 am I considered that that actually, and just experimented by over blowing the highs on my mixes, and even mixing in differnet computers (but all similar setups). Even midi stuff, which i noticed usually works itself out, suffers from this problem.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 12, 2006 02:08 pm Here is another thought as well. Cubase as well as others can export the files without adding the EQ and automation or any of the stuff you have done to the tracks. You need to select to export automation and effects and everything you have done to the track. Should be a row of boxes on one of the export pages. Even works when exporting direct to CD I believe.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Mar 13, 2006 01:42 am Am i getting annoying? if i am sorry...
but yeah, i dont see that box usually when i export. I choose Export "audio mixdown" and i checked my mixes and all the effects and automations r there like panning and even the eq is there like if i boost highs on my bass drum teh next mix will have that skin sound, but its still all only happening within those few frequencies.
Mar 13, 2006 03:20 pm hey if it makes you feel any better, the same thing often happens to me. a lot of mixes i do have bass problems--the dashboard in my jeep rattles, stuff like that. i too wish i could fix it, because it sounds fine in headphones and on home systems, usually.
ill be watching this thread!
Josh RoseJR ProductionsMember
Since: Mar 03, 2005
Mar 13, 2006 06:34 pm When ever I start to mix, I usually grab a CD or two that I want the final product to sound like. Take a listen every 15 minutes or so or whenever you've EQed a certian track. This is a nice way to keep your mixes in check with the norm as far as frequencies are conserned.
Josh
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 13, 2006 07:21 pm Crux, no question's are never annoying so dont worry about that. As for the box thing. It may actually be in your preferances settings. Maybe in the global or even in project settings. Cant really say though as I havent used Cubase in ages.
Honestly most nearfield moniters lack a little in the bottom end. So most people learning their moniters have a tendancy to over compensate. And on some budget model moniters this is an even bigger thing. Headphones as well cannot reproduce the lower frequancies you are talking about. So again, maybe a little over compensation is happening.
I agree with Josh on practicing that method. Each time I bought new moniters that is the process I would go through. Listening to something I am very familier with and learning how it sounded on my moniters. The same holds true if you chagne your room as well. You will need to learn how they sound all over again.
Crux, one suggestion to try. Do you have a frequancy or spectrum anylizer pluggin? You will be able to look at exactly were you EQ is at any given moment in the music. There are a couple free ones out there that work splendidly.
Mar 14, 2006 01:41 am try exporting to .Aiff instead of .wav. Might just be me, but I heard a huge difference. A lot less muddy and a lot brighter was the .aiff.
Mar 14, 2006 07:04 am Do you have HarBal? I would be curious to see what the spectrum looks like analyzed by HarBal. It seriously still sounds to me like you (and likely fortymile as well) really haven't gotten to tune your rooms well, or, at least, learned how to compensate for it. No room and no speaker is perfect, the best thing an engineer can do is simply get to know his/her gear as good as possible, learn it's weak points and learn how to compensate for it.
If your mixes ALWAYS end up bassy, then it's got to be the mixing environment...and you have to learn to boost the highs in the mixing...it will sound sorta nasty in the studio but you have to...or, spend some time tuning the room in your studio so it sounds better.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Mar 14, 2006 07:10 am it could just be the mics you are using. dynamic mics don't really capture much above 15khz and many condensers have a hard time with anything above 18khz...
PharicMember
Since: Mar 09, 2006
Mar 14, 2006 12:01 pm Hey all,
I'm new here, just found this place and am quite impressed with the quality of the board. So plan on hearing alot more from me soon along with updates to my profile. Thought I would lend some advice here:
Crux,
When you exported the mixdown consider this your pre-master, usually doesn't even sound close to you want when played back on a regular stereo/car deck/what ever you're are listening the CD with. What I suggest is use HalBar and find out where you're having frequency problems. One quick reminder, output the file to the highest quality WAV as possible. Then I import the audio track back into Cubase/Nuendo and apply IK Multimedia's T-RacKs to the track to clean up the frequencies and create a better balance. Then I output this file to yet another WAV which sounds way better. Although it's not good to really master your own stuff this is well worth the money I spent on the plug in because the results are night and day, especially working on just Demo stuff. Check the plug-in out at www.t-racks.com/Main.html?prod_TR_Plug
Pharic
Mar 14, 2006 12:50 pm good points there Pharic, and welcome to HRC!
Josh Rose had one aswell, i take it a step further and load a commercail cd right into my project, the instant A/B will give you a really nice 'first impression' which will allow your instinct to do it's job.
also in cubase, DO NOT use the defalut eq that's in the channel strip, goto Filters > Q and use that one instead. try to cut more than boost (i usually boost the low end a bit and the highs above 4k on my tracks that need it, but it dosn't take much, cutting will give you more headroom for more volume.
happy hunting
wyd
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 14, 2006 07:23 pm .aiff files are just apple type .wav files. There should be absolutely no sonic differances in the files. It is just another form of audio file.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Mar 15, 2006 09:35 am thanx for all the help guys, really put smoe new ideas on teh table. For one thing im sure your all right the mixing enviornment really is horrible, im thinkin of setting up my own lil mixing room in my own bedroom, so i can import all the tracks from where i record and have a closes to pro quality mixing enviornment. I dont have the money to et HarBal, but ill for sure be using the listening to cds approach from now on. Man u guys just have all the answers!
Mar 15, 2006 09:38 am You can also use a frequency analyzer and watch it while listening to it, and see which areas aren't getting much action. FA's are often shipped along with apps, if not, do some Google-wackin', I am sure you can find one for free.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Mar 15, 2006 12:15 pm google'wackin... im gonna use that from now on
Mar 15, 2006 10:02 pm Noize, thats what I thought, but i i also thought I heard a difference :S. I'll try get some examples up. Maybe my ears were just trashed tho'...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 15, 2006 10:10 pm I guess it is possible for differant systems to react differantly to the aiff or wav files, but in all respects they are the exact same thing, just a differant file type name.
I have many samples and sample disc's with both on them and honestly have never noticed any sonic differance between the two. Even the waveforms are exact replicas when you open them in a wav editor.
But stranger things have happened I guess. So You may indeed have heard a differance. I think I will open some newer files I have gotten lately and see if I can see/hear a differance as now you have gotten my curiosity up.
FenderMember
Since: Mar 12, 2005
Apr 19, 2006 03:50 am I have the same problem with the bass sounds after mixing down. However, I get get just the oposite effect, after playing the remix on another stereo machine, there is no bass. All the bass is gone.. when I play through my headphones prior to mixing its sounds great, but when I mixdown and play in my car there is no bass. Is it due to the eq? do I have to tone down the highs? puzzeled?
thanks
RobbueMember
Since: Feb 10, 2006
Apr 19, 2006 07:37 am Here is another idea as well...
on the kick drum track and the bass track take a single band parametric eq and set the Q to the highest level then starting at around 35mhz boost the db's to the hihest point and start moving it up the freq. You will hear a nasty and I mean nasty WHHHAAAAMMMPPPP when you hit on a freq that is tooooo much. Once identified, cut it out by reducing the db's all the way to -18db's or whatever your lowest point is leaving it set to the highest Q. This should help get rid of the nasty stuff and leave the good stuff behind.
To open up a mix boost in the areas of 2500, 4000-4500 and give it some air in the 12-15K area. No more than 2db's. If you have to do more than that to open up your track then I suggest going back to the drawing board and fix the tracks.
Spend time listening to Rush's Moving Pictures, ACDC's Back In Black on your monitoring system and hear how those extremely well recorded and dynamic albums translate in your environment. Once those sounds are imbedded in your head you will have a great ref point to gauge your tracking.
JM2C :))
RobbueMember
Since: Feb 10, 2006
Apr 19, 2006 07:45 am Fender...
Sounds like your experiencing freq cancellation. Thats where two instruments are hitting heavy on the same freq thus cancelling each other out. Make sure you make room in your mix to have the bass sit in it's space roughly 80-120mhz and the kick drum to fill in at 45-80mhz. It's simple to make room for each. Onthe kick track reduce with a parametric eq a couple db's with a medium size Q in the 80-110 area so that you make room for the bass and vise versa make the same reduction in the bass track at around 50-80 for the kick. The guitars should be pumping starting at the 150 and up range. If most of the guitar power is in the 100-150 area then they are competing with the bass thus giving you bass loss.
Hope this helps...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 19, 2006 03:44 pm Quote:
Spend time listening to Rush's Moving Pictures, ACDC's Back In Black on your monitoring system and hear how those extremely well recorded and dynamic albums translate in your environment.
Robbue, I have to admit I just got a chuckle from that comment. You are correct in those albums having great dynamics. Very good to learn your moniters and room by. I guess it was the ACDC part that caught me. After listening to Visual Cliff's music I had to admit the visual of you head banging to ACDC kind of got a chuckle out of me.
Nothing wrong with that either. My sons still bring home some pretty loud stuff I myself enjoying. And other parents wonder how I can stand to listen to it. Ya just gotta have an open mind, and listen to it as music, not just noise.
RobbueMember
Since: Feb 10, 2006
Apr 20, 2006 07:18 am Noize,,,you would be surprised at what I listen to and whats in my cd collection! :)) haha
I love Angus Young mostly for his guitar tone that was achieved on those albums. A lot of shredders I record cant grasp the fact that the less drive and distortion they use to record with will actually make them sound heavier :))
Another guy that I listen to often is Jason Falkner. His albums are always very dynamic and well recorded. He used to play with a band called Jelly Fish. Another album I seriously reccommend listening to is the last Silverchair album called Diorama. Amazingly great symphonic proggy pop rock. My tastes are all over the place!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 21, 2006 08:49 pm Falkner and Jelly Fish. Excellant stuff as well.
I guess I probably wouldn't be surprised really. There is a pretty healthy mixture of influances in your songs.
I have to agree on the Silverchair Diorama. Both my youngest sons went through a couple CD's each of that one from draggin it around in their CD players all the time.
As well I have had the same problem here with guitarists who think it has to be at 11 in order to record well.
