Some questions about multiband compression
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Posted on Feb 13, 2006 06:13 pm
Tadpui
I am not a crook's head
Member Since: Mar 14, 2003
Its been a compression-heavy day here at HRC, and I'm going to add to it :D
This is posed towards those of you that use a multiband compressor during your final mixdown to get more percieved volume out of your mixes.
I'm pretty much at a loss as to where to begin the process of using a multiband compressor. I understand the basic concept: split the signal into more than 1 frequency band, and compress each frequency band differently. Sounds simple. Except that any time I use one, I end up with a freaking sonic mess.
So here are a couple of pretty specific questions that will help me get off the ground next time I get the temptation to totally neuter a mix with a MB compressor:
- how do you decide how many bands you will need?
- how do you decide where each band starts/ends?
- what guidelines do you use when applying compression settings to the different frequency bands?
I think that I'm making the same kind of mistakes that are pretty common amongst those of us who are new to multiband compression. I say this because I end up with the same boomy bass, honky mids and harsh highs that I've heard a few times around here from people who now produce some great sounding music.
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SidMember
Since: Nov 15, 2005
Feb 13, 2006 07:52 pm I don't think this is the proper way to do it, but for me my multiband ends up looking like my eq. The way I see it, you equalize to add frequencies that aren't there, but with compression you can simply boost the volume of those frequencies with the already existent material in those ranges. Thus with a kick, i'll have the low end (about 120 down) compressed and boosted a bit, the low and high mids with little compression, and compress the highs similar to the lows for the attack. I find that in this case less is more. The lows and highs stay relatively consistent in the mix so the kick thumps and clicks through, but leave the mids pretty much alone so there is still variation in the sound, just not in the crucial freqs for the instrument in question. Hope that helps. If anything, it may be a starting point.
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 14, 2006 12:46 am I usually use 3 bands, occasionally 4.
band 1 goes to about 200HZ, but I fine tune it sweeping the band up or down.
band 2 goes from where ever band 1 ended up to about 4k-5k to start with then I fine tune it as well, usually going up a bit with it up to about 7khz.
band 3 is everything left over. :)
Alot depends on what you want to emphasize with it.
For compression settings they are usually very conservative and are pretty much the standard values you'd use with a single band compressor, but you probably will want the release times a bit longer than you might use with single band (around 300ms or so).
Set your thresholds & limiter (if needed) and then add/lower gain on each band to suit whats needed ie. if you need more bottom add some gain to that band. For raising the overall volume raise the gain on all the bands and equal amount, then adjust the individual bands if one is to prominent.
Starting with all bands having and equal gain, I usually end up with the middle band about 1db lower than the first and band 3 about 1dB lower yet.
I don't really use the mb compressor for overall percieved volume increases, instead I use Ozone's Maximizer, what little mb compression I use as I say is usually very conservative. You might be better off picking up one of the free Maximizers out there.
as always YMMV. :)
Dan
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Feb 14, 2006 05:39 am Sorry to be vague but
1. Listen
2. Listen
3. Experiment
[/tired humor]
1. Listen for the frequency(s) that bugs you, perhaps boosting 6-12 db and sweeping to find the offending range then cut it (by how much depends on 3).
2. Listen to what the Q is doing as you adjust it. If it sounds like it gets to muddy than you might have the Q too wide.
3. Are you Mastering? Then you may not need much, only taming things a little. However if you're trying fix huge problem then you may need to remix, hehe. Of course I use multiband compression on things like bass and dist. guitars for effect so that changes things.
sorry, maybe this isn't much help but I just ended a very long day...
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 14, 2006 12:25 pm Cool thanks fellas. I think I've at least made it this far already.
I am mastering (well, single songs anyways, not an entire album).
I know that compressing different frequency bands at different settings can help maximize perceived volume without sucking the life out of the mix. I'm just curious about what producers listen for when deciding upon different settings for different bands.
I think that part of my problem is that the Steinberg multiband compressor is of the graphical type, and these things are friggin enigmas to me...I need dials and blinking lights, not a stupid bendy line and a bouncing ball!
The only MB compressors I've used that aren't graphical are...well...sucky. Steinberg's MB compressor is actually very good, I just can't get my mind around the whole graphical interface, especially when I'm not exactly sure about what I'm shooting for in the first place.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 14, 2006 01:34 pm Sonitus:fx multiband compressor that comes with Sonar5 has got to be the most intuitve interface I've ever seen in a multiband . You can litterally grab each 'band' and adjust amplitude, and Q simultaniously . Makes tweaking while critically-listening very easy .
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Feb 14, 2006 01:49 pm I was kind of wondering about this same issue...I don't actually have a comp./limiter/exciter per say, but I do own Ozone. I know Ozone is percieved as a mastering sotware but I was thinking of experimenting with it when it comes to processing my individual tracks/sounds/instruments in the song.
For instance if there is not enough boom in the kick, or richness in the bass line. Has anyone ran instances like this with piece of software versus doing it with some sort of actual DSP gear??? just wondering if in fact it will bring life to the track or if I am heading towards squeezing the life out of it...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 14, 2006 09:28 pm I have to agree with Hue on the Sonitus pluggin as well. I have owned Waves ultra additions which include the L3 series maximizers, which are glorified compressors in reality. The latest version is a huge multiband unit. And I must say I was very impressed and love using it. They had a good lot of presets which would get a newbie out and running right out of the box.
The Sonitus unit though is as Hue stated a complete breeze to use. I might say its not as high end as the Waves plug, but it come in right on the heels of that pluggin. It is very good.
As for how I use one. I try to avoid having to use it in the final mix, but as stated above, I do use a slight experiment method. Sweeping to find the offnesive bit and work them out.
Feb 15, 2006 01:31 pm yeah i got a mastering book from Bob Katz, and he HATES multiband compressors, and advises to avoid them at all costs, espically mixing engineers....he did say they were good for taking plosives out of a vocal track and they make great de-essers. as for slapping one on the main out, i gotta say i liked it at first, but in the end it led to more problems than it helped....it's a very easy tool to get carried away with....my biggest problem was the makeup gain, i would get all attack, release, and even threshold's set...then i'd get carried away with the makeup gain....started by boosting the high-mids, which lead to a harsh edgy sound, so i'd bost the lows to compensate, which lead to a lack of clarity, so i grabbed the highs and gave them a shot in the arm.....ya see what i mean? ya get into a trap of using it as a glorified eq.
it's very easy to loose perspective with it. now the only time i go for it, is to tame everything from 200hz down, for a more consistant bottom end....i don't even touch the higher bands.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 15, 2006 02:42 pm Well I look at it this way:
I'm gonna compress or maximize the main bus anyways...why not cater to each frequency band's unique needs while doing it?
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Feb 15, 2006 03:20 pm I understand that it can become a crutch,(hell, you can probably 'mix' a song with one !), BUT as has been said time and time again... 'if it sounds good, it is good' .
That said, I'm sure it works alot better 'slapped on the main out' of a simple song rather than one comprised of many different voices criss-crossing mutual frequencies .
Multiband compression doesn't kill mixes... people kill mixes .
