Distortion Recording
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Posted on Feb 04, 2006 05:44 pm
Drizzt
Member Since: Dec 23, 2005
Hey gang! Quick question regarding recording guitars to my computer ...
My current setup is just a sm57 infront of the amp, going to an audiobuddy preamp, then into my audigy 2 soundcard.
Now, clean playing without distortion sounds WONDERFUL. But whenever I start doing anything heavily distorted, like metal songs, the quality isn't too great. I have to have everything compressed so that it doesn't breach 0 dB, which just makes the sound muffled.
So my question is... is the only good way to get distorted guitars recorded by going through a mixer? How do I go abouts hooking one of them up? Can I still use my mic and preamp? Thanks guys!
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TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 04, 2006 07:01 pm An SM57 into an AudioBuddy should get decent results. That preamp is going to be just as good or maybe better than most preamps you'll find in budget mixers.
It probably mostly depends on your amp settings, your room, and your mic position. Fizzy preamp distortion and scooped mids are the worst enemy of recorded guitars. So keep your distortion down to keep the fizz away put and your mids at a level to where there is still some presence for it to fit in a mix.
Look around for ideas for mic positioning. Everybody's got their own system, and I don't think that any 2 people do it the same. Basically you'll want the mic slightly off-axis, somewhere between the center of the cone and the edge of the speaker. The closer to the center, the more highs you'll pick up. The closer to the edge of the speaker, the more lows you'll pick up.
I found while using just an SM57 on an amp that I needed it much closer to the center of the cone than I thought I did.
And remember that just because it sounds good to your ear in the room, doesn't mean it sounds good to a mic right up against the speaker grille.
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 04, 2006 08:05 pm Thanks for the reply!
Well my amp settings are:
Low - Max
Contour - Half
High - Max
My pedal (using digitech grunge):
I have the volume quite low, the high at 3 oclock, and the low either half way or max, depending on what I'm doing.
The audiobuddy's gain switch is at the halfway point too.
As for mic positioning, I put it in the centre of the amp, about half an inch away from the grill.
Any suggestions on changing these settings? I have tried changing the volume setting with amp/pedal/preamp, and this is the best I can get without it clipping. The audiobuddy's gain sure is sensitive.. I don't even want to touch it!
Recording one guitar track sounds.. alright.. But recording two rhythms, and 2 leads on top of eachother while all distorted? Kinda a mess..
It's a struggle to keep it below 0 dB, somewhat staticy, and as you said, certainly doesn't sound like what I'm hearing in my room.
Again, without distortion it sound just brilliant. I just need this clean quality with distortion now :(
Could you perhaps give me a sound clip of what you are able to get out of an SM57 and an audiobuddy? (if you use one) with multiple distorted guitars, perhaps a few leads? Just a little something.
I'd like to compare your sound to what I'm dealing with.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 04, 2006 08:38 pm I was never too entirely satisfied with what I ended up with using just an SM57. All of the guitars here are recorded with an SM57 into an ART TubeMP Studio preamp. Those budget tube pres can suck the high end out of anything, and here's proof:
www.passingafternoon.com/...20Yesterday.mp3
Forgive some of the timing errors in the recording, but you'll notice the lack of high-end definition on the guitars in general. I don't use a ton of high end in my guitar sound in the first place. But I am pretty satisfied with the distorted guitar sound I was getting out of the amp, and that was on the boost channel with the gain set at only 3!
Any more, I use a second mic, a small or large diaphragm condensor a few feet away and combine that with the SM57 up close. Between the two, they pick up the whole frequency range pretty well. Now if only my room sounded OK...
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 04, 2006 09:02 pm Sounds bloody good to me. Do you happen to have any pictures of your mic placement? I was fooling around with mine, trying various angles, and as you mentioned, the farther away from the centre.. the less highs I got. I also tried getting rid of the mids, and now it sounds so muffled. I feel like I'm missing some simple step in my recording... because it sounds like I'm just recording with a ten dollar computer microphone, with less static!
Oh, something I wanted to ask. Someone told me earlier that you should clip your music at -3 dB if using an SM57.... this true? And perhaps the problem with my recordings is the amount of distortion I'm using? My grunge pedal is pretty heavy, and doesn't really have a knob to control how much 'gain' it has. Are pedals generally not used in recordings, and people tend to use their amp's distortion instead?
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 04, 2006 09:34 pm Sorry for the double post, but I had a thought. Do you have an email address so I can send you two small sound clips? I've done something with distortion, and then the same thing without it, so to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 05, 2006 03:08 pm OK after a failed attempt this morning to track some distorted electric guitar myself, I'm gonna shut my mouth about how to do it until I can do it right myself :)
My 57 sounded fizzy, my condensor was missing all the highs, and the direct signal was worthless. Grrr.
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 05, 2006 04:17 pm Didn't you say that song you did was with sm57's? It sounded really good.
Feb 05, 2006 05:53 pm I've said it many times before and I'll say it again. Your problems sound exactly like the problems that I used to have. Tadpui's got some great advice on watching the mids and the fizz, but here's the single best thing I can recommend to you: 2 SM57's.
Place both of the mics up against the grill of one of the speakers. Place one in the very center of the cone and the other somewhere between the center and the edge.
Now you've got good full-bodied balance between highs and lows and have the added advantage of being able to tweak your sound by changing the levels of each of the mics when you go back to mix the song. I also add a 3rd microphone, a Sennheiser e609 on a second speaker, placed somewhere between the center and edge for an even fuller sound. The SM57 / e609 combo ('57 on the center, 609 on the edge) is one that I have seen many times at professionally engineered live performances, and that was after I discovered for myself how much it improved my sound.
So, if you've got some extra mics, try it out. Let me know how things turn out!
It's also a whole lot easier than spending an hour tweaking the position of a single mic and then knocking it out of place while you're recording...
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 05, 2006 08:06 pm Thanks for the suggestions.
Here.. I put together a really quick clip so to give an idea of what I managed to get after playing with the mic position... adjusting volume... attempting to quiet the room... and the panning. Is this considered a decent sound? What can I do to make it better? (The Evolution Song)
www.soundclick.com/bands/...m?bandID=481743
Tell me what you think, and what I can do to make it better. Excuse the awful timing, I was in a rush :P
And for what it's worth, this is MUCH better than my previous sound, which sounded very sharp, and... kinda like a cat being strangled. Which reminds me... whenever I try to use EQ on any of the tracks (using Audacity) ... I can hear a very high pitched frequency being added in... and it is driving me nuts. My ears hurt. Any thoughts? (I'll upload a clip with an example of this high pitched sound... follow the link above)
BloodsoakedDeath Metal Freak!!!Member
Since: Feb 05, 2006
Feb 05, 2006 09:22 pm Check out my guitar sound at: www.soundclick.com/bands/...m?bandID=481840
My metal music is more Death Metal. This song has two guitar tracks, two vocal tracks and one track of a drum machine. It was all recorded and put together in my apartment. I am very new to this home recording stuff but I am happy with the song so far. My recording setting are much different than what sounds go to my ear while playing/practicing. Let me know what you think.
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 05, 2006 09:49 pm Some good death metal if you ask me, but we both seem to have that clarity problem in our guitars.
I added another clip (I'm more of a power metal / heavy metal guy) which shows some more of that bad quality / static / high pitches that I'm having. Any help would be great!
Feb 05, 2006 09:54 pm Here's my $.02:
I used to gig a bit, playing Heavy Metal and Thrash with a couple local bands. I had certain settings on my amp/distortion box that sounded really great live. When I tried to record songs on those settings, I ended up with a really thin, really small sound. I have found that when recording metal, I drop a LOT of gain and increase the mids on my amp a pretty large chunk. I also tend to lessen the high end a good bit. What I get recorded sounds bigger and fuller to a large extent. I try not to overdo the low end, because the bass guitar takes up that spot and I dont want a jumble in those EQ frequencies.
Remember, what you hear from the room is NOT what the mic is picking up when its butted right up against the speaker. If you dont like the sound, mic position helps. But in the long run, I'd recommend futzing with your EQ and gain settings first. Once you get a recorded sound thats close to what you like, then start messing with placement to get it right on.
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 05, 2006 10:11 pm Alright I'll try more mid's and less high's. Thanks for the suggestion.
What would you say is the cause of the bad quality in those clips of mine? The actual recording? The levels of low/mid/high? Is there "room noise" in there? Too much distortion? (In which case, I'll need a better distortion pedal.. because this one doesn't really have an option of 'turning down' the gain, so to speak.)
Or is this the best I can get considering my equipment? (sm57, audiobuddy, audigy2 soundcard, and audacity).
Would getting a condenser mic a few feet away, or even another sm57 up close, help with my problem?
Is it just an EQ problem, and I need to play around with that? In which case, who can send me some good site references to 'learning how to use an EQ' ?
Should I get a mixer instead of my preamp? Should I use a mixer AND my preamp?
I'll leave my questions at that for now. I really appreciate all your help, guys. Keep it coming :)!
Feb 05, 2006 10:44 pm I listened to the evolution clip, and the guitars sound great to me. Theres not a lot of fizz on the guitars like on the other clips. I wouldnt judge the sound of the guitars too harshly without first hearing a full mix of drums and bass (even vocals). If you work too hard trying to get a great stand-alone guitar sound, you'll probably find that it doesnt sit very well in a full mix. Once the drums and bass are in there, you'll get a much better idea of what the guitars sound like in context to the song.
DrizztMember
Since: Dec 23, 2005
Feb 05, 2006 10:51 pm Thanks :) Okay good point, I should probably get some drums and bass going.
So what of that staticy sound, like in the SF clip? Any ideas on how to fix that? I'd hate to have to re-record what I've done in that song (took enough hours as it is, and I still need to do another 3 minutes of the song!)
Is what I have considered salvagable?
Another real problem I have is with some of my lead stuff. The notes are so piercing! I most likely will have to go back and re-record them with the highs turned down a LOT.
Edit: I added another song to my site, if one of you wouldn't mind checking it out (SF1 Rhythm). Are these riffs salvagable? Or beyond repair? Do you hear static? My friend described it as a "buzz" that sorta carried out through the whole song. What is that? I certainly don't have that on my undistorted songs (see "Thorn Outro" song on my site). I'd love to get the same quality as THAT song for my distorted songs.
maxxonMember
Since: Feb 09, 2006
Feb 10, 2006 12:47 am Dimebag used to overlap his guitar part like 6 to 8 times. That's right he played the same part over and over again with proper paning the offset in timing creates a good hard driving sound and much widder. You can EQ each part a little different if you don't have room for the tracks start with two, and so on. I know it sounds like one guitar but its not really. Bands such as ZZTOP also use this technique. By doing so You can use a lesser distortion and beef it up with the othe parts. I tried this myself and I would not record a heavy distortion any other way. Thats why those metal guys like analog better the get more warmer sounds out of their axe.I can show you some examples if you like. It might be a different story if we were on a big studio budget.
bangbangmofoThecalmlittlecenteroftheuniverseMember
Since: Dec 04, 2005
Feb 17, 2006 01:50 am as far as i can tell. what you hear coming out of your amp and what your mics pick up are never ever ever the same
you need to roll the gain way down and bring the mids up pretty decently when recording a distorted guitar
as the distortion will sort of accumulate with other distorted tracks.
definitely bring highs down too many highs is is a great way to oversaturate anything gainy.
try to aim your sm57 at the edge of the cone and not the middle of the speaker. too
actually all of that has probably been said already and i probably look stupid.
so with that
adieu<3
Feb 17, 2006 09:46 am drizz from my experience which aint "alot" but personally u dont need as much distortion when recording because its such a concentrated signal to your mic's unlike what u hear when just playing live so back your distortion or overdrive down some and it should get better......
Feb 17, 2006 02:45 pm ok i didn't fully read the thread, so i'm sure someone mighta already suggested this, but, ya gotta turn them low's down ESPECIALY when close miking....you're proximity effect will provide a good bottom end, next off, the highs's don't need to be cranked either, if you place a mic dead center on the cone, it's vitually all high-mids and highs....which leads me to mic placement...spend a good amout of time RECORDING mic checks and vocalize what you're dooing then go back and listen....start with the mic dead center and right on the grill...slowly move it strait back and listen to what it does, you'll get more room in the sound (which could be good or bad)
next start close and center and SLOWLY move the mic tward the outter rim of the speaker cone...this will roll off the highs and get more lows in there (again use your proximity effect to your advantage for more bass)
next up is your amp settings, depending on what kinda amp you're using, it's usually better to turn the preamp gain down lower than your normal live sound....crank up the power (master volume) instead ....espically if you're usin' a tube amp.
you don't want too much lows when tracking distorted guitar, cuz you'll just end up cutting them out when mixing....150-300hz is your 'meat 'n potatoes' for dist. guitars...anything below 100hz is mud and will not help your sound, not to mention cover up the bass guitar.
cheers
wyd
sticadokid*sticado: short and LOUD!*Member
Since: Feb 25, 2005
Feb 17, 2006 03:00 pm go to bruceamiller.us and click "audio course" hes got stuff on mic placement for guitars and he tells u the results that he had.
