Aug 17, 2005 10:00 pm cymbals bleed in to everything...I have never had cymbal mics...
Another drum micing question...
Posted on Aug 17, 2005 08:53 pm
Josh Rose
JR Productions
Member Since: Mar 03, 2005
After looking at some picture of professional studios and how they mic there kits, I rarely saw any sets that had a specific mic for the ride. It was usually 2 stereo OHs and one mono OH and usually a hihat mic. As of right now I'm using a mic on everything (including crashes, ride, and hihat) I was just wondering what everyone around here uses. Thanks.
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Aug 17, 2005 10:00 pm cymbals bleed in to everything...I have never had cymbal mics...
Aug 17, 2005 11:13 pm Well it'll give you better control over the over all sound, but it might be very hard to get in phase.
I've been to a few studios that mic all the cymbals, and if my inputs were working, i would :)
Aug 18, 2005 12:41 am I have nearly zero drum micing experience, but I found that the fewer mics you use (for anything, drum sets included), the easier it is on YOU. And the results can be pretty darn good from a simple 4 mic setup on drums (stereo overheads, a kick mic and a snare mic).
The control is nice, but like the Col. says, it just adds another mic that you have to get in phase with the others, and like dB said, cymbals are so loud that they come across very strong in just about any mic in the room.
I can't imagine having to mic a crash cymbal in order for it to come thru in the mix. CAn you actually hear a difference in the drum mix if you mute the crash cymbal tracks?
Aug 18, 2005 11:13 am I just recorded my drums for my album.
I used 2 OH mono, 1 mono bassdrum and 1 mono snare/hi-hat.
Like dB said, cymbals bleed into the mic...most of the time overpowering the other instruments. My ride and crash were picked up well on the OH, and my hi-hat was picked up very well on my snare mic. I would suggest testing different positions of the mics, as i did. It took me a couple of hours to get it right...but it sounds great!
Aug 18, 2005 11:35 am Thanks for the replies guys. Im gonna go some time foolin around with differnt positions and whatnot.
Aug 20, 2005 01:37 pm I prefer to mic the bass drum, snare drum, and then put a condensor above the kit, or sometimes even a few feet behind the kit to pick up the overall sound.
Of course, if you're going for a natural drumset sound, like for jazz, I've always been happy with just one condensor mic in the room (depending on the room). You'll have to play around with the location of the mic, but it works fairly well. Just don't put it TOO close to cymbals. I usually prefer behind, as it picks up a fairly balanced snare/toms/cymbal signal... although bass drum sometimes gets a little lost, which I then fix in EQ.
Aug 20, 2005 01:59 pm Thanks dkerwood. Usually I record rock/powerpop type of music. But sometime soon a friends jazz band will be recording some stuff so I'll tryout your suggestion for sure.
On that topic of recording jazz drums, how does a small home studio get good tracking of jazz? There will be a drummer, a bassist (stand up) tenor sax, and piano. I only have two inputs on my soundcard so getting levels after my mixer is out of the question. My live room is large enough to have everyone play at once, so my thought would be just to have them all face a stereo pair of mics and then set them up where i want them in the mix. If I did choose to go this route, would it be advisable to also close mic the sax, bass, base drum and snare?
And lastly, I have a baby grand piano sitting in my living room which would need at least 50ft or so of cable to reach. But I also have a MIDI keyboard (m-audio keystation 61es) and then i would use that as the keyboard while the band played. Then my thought was that I could overdub the piano on my baby grand because it would sound a lot better. Lemme know what ya think. Thanks.
Edit: There is also a computer right next to the piano so if i choose to overdub I could get the session down to here for him to listen to with headphones.
Aug 21, 2005 09:20 am Hmm..interesting this jazz to stereo thing.
I think i'd do the stereo room micing, in the room itself i'd put the drums at the back, the bass slightly left of the drums and forward, the piano slightly more right of the kit and forward, and the sax forward of everything and just left of centre. Then i'd place a mic between the kick and the snare, maybe an overhead depending on the volume and style of the cymbal work, a decent contact mic on the double bass, and mono mic the piano, probably an LDC. Then i'd see how that sounds and maybe add a sax mic, though being forward of everything anyway you shoudl be okay. Do a couple of brief takes (but long enough for the group to build up a little dynamically) and adjust, but yeah, that'd be where i'd start i think.
Aug 21, 2005 01:26 pm Thanks Rigsby. I'm gonna be joining HRC Pro soon so I'll post some clips of different positions of mics and stuff. Hopefully everything will work out well.
Aug 21, 2005 02:39 pm Whenever you record something "organic" like jazz or classical, you want it to sound fairly close to what it might sound like live. Yes, in the recording world we can create soundscapes that could never exist in the real world, but you want to at least start with the "live" feel.
Towards that end, you could probably get away with stereo mics in the room, as long as everything can mix acoustically and the band is made up of good musicians (particularly the drummer). If the bassist and piano player play raw and unplugged, this will be very easy.
Of course, if the volume comes up, and the bassist is used to using a small amp (and the keyboard player would have to follow suit), then you're going to run into volume issues, especially in a relatively small room. The stereo room mics might have to go.
If you have the capacity to give each band member a pair of headphones, try this: mic up the whole drumset (or better yet, if you have room, put a couple of stereo mics about 4-5 feet in front of the drummer 6 or 7 feet apart... just make sure to fix the phase issues). Put a good contact mic on the bass, and run the keyboard into your mixer, but don't record the keyboard. Run that into the headphones so that everyone can hear it, but leave it out of the recording, because it'll be easier to overdub. Pan the mixer for the live take appropriately (drum left/right, bass is traditionally positioned next to the ride cymbal, sax up front). Then send your stereo signal to your computer and you're set. Then take it back to the grand piano and overdub your keys.
You might also think about the same piano overdub method with the sax.
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