Some little bug in the mix...
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Posted on Jun 17, 2005 12:25 pm
SamBrn
Member Since: Jun 17, 2005
Hi,
this is my 1st topic in the forum, I hope you all can understand my english 'cause I'm italian and probably many errors will occur in my sentences.
I'm in home-recording world for about 10 years and now, after many efforts, I think to have reached good result with my final masters.
I'm used to equalize every single instruments in the mix to reduce conflicts between them; put and adjust compressors differently for every track; remove noise; use multiband compressor for vocals; and much more...
So I can obtain good mixes (about -15db RMS Avg)with a good spectrum. After mastering (I use the har-bal procedure with some change) I have got a song which sounds clear, well-shaped and with a loudness which runs between -10.5db and -12.5 db depending to the kind of song and to my taste (personally I'd make my tracks sound like TheDarkSideOfTheMoon, but I've to adapt to the new trend).
What's the problem?
Well, sometimes during the mastering procedure I discover a little bug in the mix... a sort of buried clip-pop-distortion, detectable only with headphones and with high levels of volume. However it's present also in the original mixdown, but only in the mastering where the limiter punchs the sound I can hear clearer this malfunction. So I go back to the mix where the problem is located. I mute the tracks one at the time trying to understand which one has got this clip-pop-distortion; I try to solo each track just to see if some fx applied in the send-channel affects the sound; I try to import every track in cooledit or wavelab just to check it, but I can detect nothing wrong!!!!
Sometimes I can find which is the track that added to the mix bring the bug described, but palyed in solo it always seems so clear and perfect!
I suppose that at some frequency two or more instruments come in conflict in a sort of resonance. Isn't it?
Does someone has got the same problem?
Thanx
Sam
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pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 17, 2005 01:08 pm I'm guessing that during the mixdown, the computer hiccuped for a split second and introduced an artifact into the mixed down wave file. I would re-do the mixdown process and check the final wave file.
Welcome to HRC, and good luck.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jun 17, 2005 02:13 pm I had the same problem when I was mixing with my vocals. In order to get my vocals nice and loud, it would distort or pop when the song was at it's loudness. I turned the main volume down just a notch, enough to get rid of the cliping, and was okay. Is it happening even when your mixing or only after you mix and start mastering?
SamBrnMember
Since: Jun 17, 2005
Jun 17, 2005 02:46 pm Well, the problem can be heard also in realplay while i'm setting the tracks for a correct mix and of course in the mixdowned wave file before it is imported in wavelab for the mastering (I use a limiter at the final stage of mixing just to avoid cliping).
However I still want to point out that this sort of clip-pop is soft and I can detect it only by headphones and in the mastering where the compressor and the limiter boost the volume and make it more detectable. During the mixing procedure it's quite impossible to hear it, but if you check patienly it's present. It ain't a problem of mastering.
I've always tried to mute compressors of each track (the bug is somewhat similar to the squashed sound when too much compression is applied) but nothing change: this malfunction doesn't disappear!
It is usually present no more than once in a song and in a album of 15 tracks it appears only in 2 or 3 of them. Now I'm manage it simply working the mixdown file in cooledit and reduce it by the clip-pop manual eliminator function. But I'd like no making these kinds of correction on the mix..
Sam
jmailjimmie neutronMember
Since: Feb 14, 2005
Jun 17, 2005 08:28 pm Could just be the the "sum of the parts is greater than the individuals" or however that goes...
or it could just be too much gain boost and you're hitting the limiter too strong too often and getting distortion (on the "master", or "sum" of all the tracks)
or maybe your computer isn't quite up to it when you're doing all of your tracks and plugs at once. If that's the case, do like some of us do and do a couple of sub-mixes with their plug-ins and then mix the subs together in a different session. Of course, it makes it more difficult to get what you're after when after you've got the guitar and bass and keys (or whatever) sub-mixed and now you find that with the vocals added in, the guitar is too loud... Do over.
Or be more "efficient" with your plug-in use. Do a sub-mix of several parts and send that to a bus and then add in reverb, instead of reverb on each individual track.
Jun 18, 2005 11:52 am Quote:
sum of the parts is greater than the individuals
right on jmail!!!
with digital mixing, as you layer more and more tracks, they stack up on eachother, when reguarding levels..... this reduces your headroom dramatically...i'm gussing the clip you are hearing isn't from one little part, but from the sum of all the parts...find the exact time it does it and back off the vocals or drums first, if it still does it, try turning down the bass track a bit...in the analog(ue)world things work a bit differently and the tracks accualy 'blend' more then the 'stacking effect' of digital.
SamBrnMember
Since: Jun 17, 2005
Jun 18, 2005 02:14 pm whosyourdaddy00,
your explanation seems to hit the target. In fact the problem usually happens in the part of the song which are filled with many tracks, while in the others where the number of instruments decrease nothing is detected.
I'm gonna try to do what you're suggesting.
Thanx very much,
Sam
Jun 18, 2005 03:37 pm yeah i think the resonance thing can happen. two crests of waves at the same frequency--already very loud--meet and additively boost each other. but it shouldnt happen if you apply a limiter on top of the full mix, should it?
by the way, dont worry about your english; it was really clear.
Jun 18, 2005 03:39 pm well it could clip the input of the limiter, so you'll still hear it, unles it has an input gain fader.
SamBrnMember
Since: Jun 17, 2005
Jun 19, 2005 09:07 am Fortymile & whosyourdaddy00,
1st of all thanx for your explanations.
Well, I use an overall limiter in the master channel just to avoid the exported mixdown file to have distortion problems. I suppose there's not anyway clipping before the limiter action. Besides this "bug" happens mostly out of time of the song. For example not in the same moment when a kick, snare, crash, bass, chord guitar, vocals, ect.. start to play (eg: 1:01:00)(and where a peak usually resides), but just some ms later (eg: 1:01:08) like it was a sort of delay.
So I guess it's probably a problem of resonance or sum. I've to admit that I'm used to create rich mixes (with guitars, synths, choirs, ect..)which probably leads to high levels and to a short headroom.
Sam
