Fat guitars

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Hold 'Em Czar
Member Since: Dec 30, 2004

ok ppl i finely got a taste of what i've been workin' on for ya, any coments are welcom, this mix is a bit bass heavy but i'm workin' on it...enjoy

www.nowhereradio.com/arti...431&alid=-1

wyd

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Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Mar 08, 2005 05:21 pm

I thinks its pretty good...

I like the way one of your guitar tracks bleeds in from the right like a tiny premonition to everything coming in...the panning/mixing is well done I feel...when it comes to the 'fat guitars'

By the way I am on a Boston Acoustic 3pc PC speaker system here at work, just so you know whats sending me your sound...

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 08, 2005 05:23 pm

cool man thanks for the input, like i said this is a rough mix as it was last week, it's gettin' better every day....the bass is a bit dry and lifeless, any ideas how to bring it to life?

Jack of all trades master of ___
Member
Since: May 28, 2004

Mar 08, 2005 05:29 pm

Not off hand I have to wait till I can juice it up at home...I can't do that here at work, I like to juice it and get the full flavor of the sound...

Then maybe I might have some suggestions...We will see...

For a rough mix its pretty nice...

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Mar 08, 2005 05:36 pm

I agree, pretty good sounding. Snare might be a little hot. I'd have to hear it on a real system, but sounds good so far.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 08, 2005 05:59 pm

the quality isn't great on that site either, i dithered down to 16 bits then made the mp3 at 128kbs enven then the sites streaming audio kinda hurt it too (you can hear it on the hi-hats in the beginning.....i can't wait to get this project finished!

thanks for the replys

wyd

Ex-Wookie
Member
Since: Aug 29, 2003

Mar 08, 2005 06:59 pm

IMHO, I think the guitars are lacking definition. Boosting a little at 1k-3k wouldn't hurt.

I have to agree with you in saying that it is bass heavy. Listening on a system I know well, (2.1) I would say you need to drop the low end by a bunch.

Love the riff though. Want to hear when it is done.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 08, 2005 07:06 pm

good ear Bennis, i accually cut that area on both to leave a hole for the vox....

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Mar 08, 2005 10:34 pm

Sounding really good WYD, and yes a bit bass heavy, but you already know that. :) For the bass have you tried boosting some of the higher lo-mids a bit (400HZ-800)? Though really for the type of song the smooth bottom on the bass you have fits pretty well, I don't know that you'd really want to get to punchy.

Dan

Member
Since: Mar 17, 2005

Mar 17, 2005 08:16 am

Hey, are you sure you wanted us to hear guitars?
Theres a cool drums and bass guitar going on, but guitars are mixed so low in the mix, i cant say you've done the right thing on the guitars.
It lacks volume dood!
Bass? Noway, it hardly drops down 65 Hz, bass and drums sits in the right place. I would even go down with the kicks around 50-55 Hz, but not much.
Spectrally speaking, no probs with the bass (listening the mix as of 3-15-05). Pump the guitars up!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 17, 2005 11:30 am

damnit!!! lol i was told to turn 'em down the other day! haha so i did...well last night i spent alotta time on my gain staging (which i've found is best to do last) and everything is definately alot more 'present' in the mix. infact i gotta turn my reverbs down a bit...but now i'm holdin' -15db RMS on the heavy parts....i'm shootin' for -12db RMS but i gotta wait 'till i get some vocals in there...

thanks

wyd

Member
Since: Mar 17, 2005

Mar 18, 2005 03:21 am

btw, pjk is right.
Snare has to be lowered by 3 dB at least.
You'll have a problem if singer enters the mix.
For me snare eq (or maybe it is not eq-d) is right, volume is too much for todays pro-productions.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 18, 2005 01:47 pm

cool thanks for the heads up....will definately do.

wyd

Perdido
Member
Since: Dec 15, 2004

Mar 18, 2005 02:00 pm

Are you going to be tracking vox this weekend?

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 18, 2005 02:07 pm

nope singer is re-enacting some civil war battle all weekend so we gotta wait 'till next weekend.

§=o(

Perdido
Member
Since: Dec 15, 2004

Mar 18, 2005 02:21 pm

tell him there will be no reinactment needed if he doesnt hurry up and cooporate!! :D

A small pie will soon be eaten
Member
Since: Aug 26, 2004

Mar 18, 2005 04:53 pm

Hey WYD, on my system the Bass sounds bloody awsome! really chunky!

i agree that the guitar's need a cheeky bit of 'punch' but other than that this is really cool! should be a really powerfull tune when completed!

can't wait to hear the vox!

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Mar 18, 2005 11:12 pm

Woah-- Nice drum sound! Beautiful snare and kick drum tone-- Definately the high point of the mix. Good bass tone, too. The rhythm tracks sound too quiet, but the tone sounds good. Great stuff!

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 19, 2005 12:49 pm

yeah i've learned it's best to stage the gain at the end of the 'layering' phase so things are quite a bit louder...but someone has said the drums are too small relative to the guitars, and therefore makes them apear 'weak'.

he was wanting to hear more "sevendust" type toms. how strongly do you feel about the drum sound...i will say the drummer loves Carter Beauford from Dave Matthews Band (even named his kids middle name Carter)

so i was gooin' for a bit of that "quick drum" sound...but if ya read elseware, you'll see i plan on makin' some changes to the drum sound.

lemme know what you think

thanx

Member
Since: Mar 17, 2005

Mar 20, 2005 06:24 am

Well, i didn't quite get it "The rhythm tracks sound too quiet" from PorpoiseMuffins's post, but in pop-rock production, you won't see that much gain/volume on snare drums.
If that track is aimed at "pop" style, the thing could be kept or supported would be the volume of the kick, and boosted on lower end; but no, still snare is too strong. Anyway, in this stage it is still too early to comment on the drum sound, cos you'll see after the singer will be in the mix. You will HAVE TO lower it. Otherwise it won't be more than the masturbation for the drum player. :)
Btw, if it is an acoustic drum recording, it was a nice recording. Its difficult to get the sounds that way.
I've heard pop-rock in that tune, and guitars are lacking volume. After you put them up, eq or multiband compression can be commented.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Mar 20, 2005 01:46 pm

hhhey wyd, what gear were you using for the track man?

Bass the sounds chunky, i agree with bleak on that one.

Love the drum sound, especially the snare but agree that it could go down a bit.

I love the clean sound of the guitar, i think the two panned cleaned guitar tracks work great together.I like the building distortion and random sounds in the left ear. i think the distorted track is lacking definition as well.

Sorry i cant offer more technical info but hey, im still learning right?

Cheers

C_S

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Mar 20, 2005 05:55 pm

What kind of snare drum is that, whosyourdaddy?

ilterocktive: I was talking about the rhythm guitar tracks, not the drums.

I think the snare is pretty close to a perfect volume in relation to the rest of the kit. Bringing up the guitar tracks will have the effect of sitting the snare more within the mix. Final compression will probably also bring down the snare level, and by then you'll be wishing you could find a way to get it up louder :)

Member
Since: Mar 17, 2005

Mar 21, 2005 01:30 am

Yup, Porpoise, surely "Final compression will probably also bring down the snare level" but the Transients of percussive instruments will suffer a lot during mastering (or "final compression" with your naming) but not the tailing sounds. In other words: main character of snare; punchiness, eq spectrum (which is already leaking to the human voice area) will be gone, you'll have a creepy "breathy" tail of snare after mastering.
If you don't put the volumes to a proper level in the mix (which we call it "proper mix") you can never get a proper mastering.
Don't leave the things to a "final" stage. Mastering guys are experienced but they are all human at the end.

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 21, 2005 12:27 pm

wow!!! great points ppl §=oD so much to learn....

ok ok, the snare was the matching snare for a 6pc wraped DW kit...i'm not sure what model but it's all Mapel. he's got Evans "Dry" snare head, which has tiny holes around the outside edge. and Evans "Hydrolics" on the toms. 5A wood tip sticks...(broke two durring tracking)

Quote:
hhhey wyd, what gear were you using for the track man?


all music tracks are miked amps and drums gooin' right into a Roland VS-2480 (stock converters and pres.)
then mixed in Sonar 3

i've got vocals in it now and have quite a bit of work to do!

we do aim to get it mastered professionally and get all the legal stuff in order, bar coded and ready to sell, so the "pop/radio" friendly mix is definately desired.

this is gonna kinda be inbetween Demo and indie Debut quality.

thanks for the input, and i'll have a new mix later this week...i've never mixed vocals before §=oO

peace

Perdido
Member
Since: Dec 15, 2004

Mar 21, 2005 12:39 pm

Evans Genera Dry snare heads are hard to mic. They are quite loud.

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Mar 21, 2005 05:25 pm

wow, nothing specially awesome gear wise then. Something to aim for, cheers Wyd.

Also howd you go about getting that chunky bass?

Cheers

C_S

Hold 'Em Czar
Member
Since: Dec 30, 2004

Mar 22, 2005 12:21 pm

ha! the bass was the simplest setup with very little processing...Earnie Ball Sting Ray, gooin' to an Ampeg SVT Pro, into an Ampeg 8x10" cab....we recorded a direct out from the amp, and we put an AKG D112 about 3 feet back.

i do have a tad of plugin distortion and chorus (both on aux busses) on it

other that that just compression and eq is all you're hearin'

peace

wyd

edit0r
Member
Since: Aug 17, 2004

Mar 23, 2005 08:01 pm

Cheers wyd, cheers. I must get myself an akg d112, they have so much more punch than my Beta 52.

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