Jan 31, 2005 02:09 pm preamp output and amp sim output (such as that of the POD) ARE direct boxes. headphone outs are not direct outs...
Direct Box Confusion
Posted on Jan 31, 2005 01:16 pm
PorpoiseMuffins
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
I know what it does, and I use them all the time live-- but I'm a bit confused about when to use/not to use a direct box for recording. I sometimes run the pre-amp output of my bass amp through a cable to the input of my mixer or outboard recording pre to supplement the cab mic. Is there any need for a direct box between the amp's preamp out and the recording preamp? I was also questioning whether I need/should bother with adding the recording or mixer pre before the sound card at all, or just plug directly into the interface. I do get a good amount of hiss/static when going direct out of the bass amp's pre-amp out to my recording gear, but I always figured this was just my cheap bass.
The same question goes for running direct out of a POD or the headphone/direct out of a Line 6 amp. Should I use a direct box, a pre-amp, or both in this case?
I have an ART TPS, and I've heard it referred to as a DI before, so if I run into that, or into the pre-amped inputs of my Echo Layla, would it be different than using a direct box?
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Jan 31, 2005 02:09 pm preamp output and amp sim output (such as that of the POD) ARE direct boxes. headphone outs are not direct outs...
Jan 31, 2005 02:30 pm According to the Line 6 Spider manual, their headphone out doubles up as the direct out, if you use a stereo splitter.
So, if a preamp performs the same thing as a direct box, what would the point be of using a direct box before going into a mixer (on a pre-amped channel) when playing live? Just to convert to a balanced signal/XLR if you need to travel across the room?
And then back to my other question-- should I use a preamp (ART TPS or Echo pres) between my bass amp's preamp/amp modeler and my soundcard?
Jan 31, 2005 05:30 pm i'd take the Direct out from the amp and go right to the board.
Feb 01, 2005 12:57 am Mr. Muffins,
Hi first, long time no chat!
A DI is all about impediance matching. Without going into a whole lot of detail there should be about a 10 to 1 or greater differential between the receiving unit and the sending unit. The receiving unit should have 10 or greater times the impediance (expressed in ohms) than the sending unit. Noise, phase relationships, and overall fullness of signal can be effected.
Most line in's on boards are relitively low impediance as they expect as standard line-in signal. Instrument pickups and many amplifier loops have higher impediance outputs than the board's input is engineered to accept well. Another consideration is that many boards use balanced inputs or TRS inputs.
A typical DI box will do two things. It will offer a high impediance to the instrument pickup or instrument loop and convert unbalanced to balanced. Many stand alone pre-amps will also double as a DI box as they have these characteristics built in.
I have a 4 channel DI strip that I hardly use anymore as I have a two channel tube pre that provides DI electrical conversions as well as provides for tube warming and variable amplification. I keep it in the rack for those rare occasions where I need to use the tube pre for vocals and plug instruments direct at the same time; live stuff.
Bottom line, you should be able to hear the difference. Use the least amount of gear necessary. Try 'instrument X' direct into board. Then try it with pre-amp to line in on board. Then try preamp-DI-Board. Use whatever sounds best. If no difference is heard between any two arrangements go for the least complicated. Every instrument pickup and every board are different. Some will match up, others will need assistance.
Hope that helps.
Feb 02, 2005 05:18 pm Thanks a lot for clearing that up for me, Walt! In your example, whenever you refer to plugging into "the board," I assume you're talking about plugging into a line input with no pre-amp on the channel (Or plugging straight into a computer interface without pre-amps), correct?
Would the preamps on a mixer perform differently than the outboard pre-amp that claims to double up as a direct box, or is there something special about certain preamps?
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