Mixer - help required
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Posted on Dec 20, 2004 04:41 am
Laurina Hunt
Member Since: Dec 20, 2004
I'd like to buy a mixer for someone who is into music technology and plays in an "casual" irish trad band. I know nothing about music - no doubt he will change it but I'd like to get one which shows I've done some research. Can anyone recommend one? Budget is approx $1000.
Thanks
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Dec 20, 2004 06:15 am Well, you don't give us much to go on, but something like service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear would be cool. It's got 8 mono preamps mic channels, some stereo channels for direct feeds from things like keyboards, a built in effects unit, a main out and four sub-outs for things like monitor signals and such, tape ins and outs...and it's only $299.
So, you want to look like you did a lot of research, but not really do it? :-)
The recommendation could be changed if they use a lot more mics than that, which depends on how many instruments they have...I am not sure what a "traditional" Irish band has for players...and I am even 50% Irish...
Dec 20, 2004 06:22 am if you mean a mixer for recording's(which i think you do ) i would look into something like a multitrack recorder . i am using an older fostex vf-16 (now knows as the vf160)and it works really well the built in effects are are very functionable and the direct record feature is simple to learn .but there are mixers from yamaha and korg that are nice as well .if your friend is computer savvy look into some of the software used by a lot of folks here some are even free and you could save that $1000 for accessories such as microphones ,cables,etc... happy shopping!
Dec 20, 2004 06:25 am behringer ,behringer,behringer ,,aahhhhhh gotta love them ! they just keep the goods coming for cheap
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 20, 2004 09:50 am Oh my, Insta-research. Aahh the internet, let me count the ways.
How many instruments / voices?
Will the mixer be used for recording or live performance or recording while playing live?
What is your friend's focus. Is it sound or brand name or both?
Does your friend have anything to record on if that is the purpose of the mixer? If so, what?
Dec 21, 2004 03:53 am Well I only said I wanted to do "some" research, not look like I did a lot!!
Anyway the mixer is for gigs - he has some cool software that does mixing post event.
There can be up to 10 musicians at a time. He is very into sound - moreso than brand I'd guess.
Do you get what you pay for? - ie if i get something (a Berhinger>>>?) for about €1000, with 10 inputs, would that impress???
Time is running out, Santa needs to load the sleigh....
Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.
Laurina
Dec 21, 2004 06:06 am Many of us here us Behringer and are quite happy with them. You could go spend twice as much and get a Mackie that is marginally better, but not the 100% better which the price would indicate.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 08:01 am Well for live sound a Behringer will impress the ears, they may not impress folks in terms of cost of equipment. On the other hand some people might be impressed with the choice e.g. smart, frugal etc.
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Dec 21, 2004 08:15 am Behringer is my friend...
Dec 21, 2004 08:30 am My friend too. I could buy most any mixer I wanted if I really wanted to, but I like my Behringer.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 08:51 am Mixers are starting to pile up here. Folks see you have one and they drop off their old ones. I'm not complaining, it's a nice gesture, but I really should fix up a couple and get them out of my garage. Gettin crowded in there. I'll keep my Behringer however.
Dec 21, 2004 10:21 am I wouldn't recommend Behringer for live gigs as they tend not to take much abuse... They don't really even produce a board with enough channels for 10+ performers (lets say minimum 2 channels each, one for instrument, one for vocals) doing irish trad... I'm not big on Mackie either, but they do tend to take a lot more abuse.
With a thousand pound budget, you'd be able to get into 32 channel boards.... Best bet, hit a shop and go look at a few 'road' models. It'd be great to get something that has selectable phantom power for each and every channel individually (most irish trad players like to use misc. condensors, DI's, and other gadgets that tend to either need phantom power, or forbid it), pres on most channels would be okay, but the ability to bypass the pre (line ins) is very important as some trad players have their own pres (especially them damn fiddlers).... Also, as many bus's as possible for recording is great for trad, as tweaking a hand drum is an absolute must, and blending it with other instruments while doing the adjustment is well, hell...
That's about the only special requirements for that style of music I could think of, other than that, you need to answer the questions:
How many inputs, and what kind do I need? This can be figured out by asking; What kind of instruments are being used/could be used/are mostly used? Do any of the instruments have special requirements? How many singers must be tracked and how many might be tracked?
What sort of inserts/effects bus's/aux bus's would you need, and how many? This can be figured out by asking; Is there any additional outboard equiptment, such as pres, eq's, gates, compressors, etc. that is already in use?
How many mix bus's do you need, and what sort of outputs? This can be figured out by asking; What's the intended use for the board? Studio recording? Live mixing? Live recording? Addition to existing equipment to 'expand'?
Do you need a digital or analog board, and what output requirements? This can be figured out by asking; If the unit is to be used for recording, analog or digital? What kind of hardware will be doing the recording? If it's for live sound, what sort of amp(s) are you connecting to?
What's the knowledge level of the end-user of equipment? (Ask what his dream board is, then talk to a pro about it, and he'll be able to gauge the level of knowledge from that)
How often will the unit be used, and what sort of environment would it be used in?
Uhm... Yeah, that's about all the questions I can think of for now, but from that, you should be able to narrow down the selection to just a few boards, and decide based on price, easily.
W.
Dec 21, 2004 10:28 am I have a buddy that runs a live sound reinforncement business here in the tiwn cities, and he only has Behringer in his rigs and never has problems...
Dec 21, 2004 10:33 am Hey, I know people who've kept tin cans in mint condition for 50 years, it all depends on the user and the environment, plus a little bit of luck ;) I just have to generally say that Behringer is one of the ones I've seen most in the RMA room...
W.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 10:36 am Quote:
Hey, I know people who've kept tin cans in mint condition for 50 years
thats funny thing to collect...whos gonna want a 50 year old tin of beans?
Dec 21, 2004 10:39 am Hehe, funny you ask. My father has a massive collection of old tins sitting on top of cabinets in the kitchen. They're empty if you're wondering, but they aren't just old junkers, they're works of art in themselves, really something to see. Packaging was much more of an art back then, not so commercial or gimicky... I'll send y'all some shots some day, if I ever see 'em again.
W.
Dec 21, 2004 10:41 am Some old tins are VERY cool, Waldo's right, packaging was actually unique and very much more of an art then.
Look in any antique store...some are VERY cool, textured metal, not just stick on labels and very cool stuff.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 01:31 pm Waldo,
Where do you work / frequent that you are by the RMA room often?
RobertJExcuse Me, I Like 2 Ask QuestionMember
Since: Dec 05, 2004
Dec 21, 2004 02:23 pm mixers taking abuse? well if its for live app. you should have it in a rack, or some protective gear. and they sell racking brakets for mixers.. and if u have it in a rack and drop it, CONSTIANTLY (putting nonconstant accidents a side), then should u be dealing with equipment?
I have a behringer and, it works great..
you could spend more money and maybe get something higher price..but for similar production, why do that?
i would suggest looking into behringer, by over 85% of there equipment gets rated real good.
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Dec 21, 2004 02:56 pm I dont get someone who wants equipment on the basis of "taking abuse"...thats like people who dont know how to drive cars and buy "SAFETY" rated ones to excuse them from learning how to drive the thing...
I can see a live application environment where loading and unloading is common. And I can see if something minimal happens and it dents easy like those cheap 9.99 aluminum file cabinets from WalMart...Behringer shells are pretty sturdy I think, not like it would put a hole in the floor if ya dropped it but...In general I just don't see how one would NOT hmmm lets see....take care of their gear...maybe???...and keep it out of the RMA room, then having to look for another...
I suppose because I have no LIVE experience that I cannot offer up the theory that if you take extra care of your stuff you need not worry about abuse ratings??? I dunno.
Dec 21, 2004 03:29 pm First off, an item never gets to an RMA room if it's damaged by any form of negligence, so I'm not sure what you guys are arguing. Perhaps re-read the line 'I know people who've kept tin cans in mint condition for 50 years, it all depends on the user and the environment, plus a little bit of luck'? Check the trash bin for abused ones, 'cause they either go there or you pay to get them fixed.
By 'abuse' I mean normal wear and tear from everyday use, such as cables being inserted and removed nine times a night five nights a week for ten years, faders being pushed up and down thousands of times a night (lots of faders only have a rating/warranty of 10,000 motions!!), occasionally hammered down because some jackass decided to unplug without warning the sound man, switches being flicked five to ten times a song, pounds of carbon monoxide and other awful gasses (cigarette smoke and the like) building up and oxidizing components, plugs, connectors and mucking up internals, etc. not to mention being shipped, hauled around in a truck, moved around by drunk roadies, etc.. I don't care how gentle you are, NOTHING mechanical lasts forever, it only lasts as long as the materials it's made with can stand up to how OFTEN it is used. A paper clip left alone lasts forever. A paper clip used hundreds of times over quickly loses it's shape... And thousands of times, becomes useless.
I don't know how many of you have done live shows with 10+ band members and 30+ channels going, but there sure as hell is alot of use (read abuse) going on with that board!
Behringer does not warranty any of the 'mechanical' parts of their boards, and the rest of their warranty only lasts one year, whereas a great deal of others minimum around 3 with seperate warranties for heavy use mechanicals such as faders. You CANNOT open a behringer without voiding the warranty, so forget a proper cleaning unless you don't care, or it's out of warranty already. If I were in a stretch and had to bring a board (and only one, no backup) to a life critical (someone would die if it didn't go flawlessly) marathon concert, I would most certainly not bring a behringer.
I'm also not sure where this '85%' rating is coming from, I'd like to know more about how that statistic was formed, what study group was responsible for it, etc.. Feel free to visit some pro sound forums, and talk with some major industry folk that have some good credentials, they'll most likely say the same thing; Best thing about behringer is they're cheap.
Next, I've spent plenty of years in various shops in various positions, including customer, spent plenty of time as a roady, and more than enough as a sound guy (I own several behringer units, as well as many other brands), and would love to defend my opinion with specifics but don't feel I have to. I didn't say it to start a fight. Recommendations were asked, and I gave mine. If yours is different, suck it up, not going to change mine.
That being said, behringer, for light home recording use, yep, it's a bargain. And even some of their outboard gear ain't bad for live gigs. I just don't like their boards for live!
W.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 05:39 pm Oh my!
Wow, I just wanted to know if you worked in a shop or whatever for casual conversation. Please don't defend yourself. Please don't change your mind. Goodnes, if folks at those professional sound forums go off like that, I'll stay here.
Gooses sakes!
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Dec 21, 2004 06:09 pm Yeah I saw the length of that baby and hit the 'next track' button
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 06:49 pm That's Bizzar, second one in a week.
This is Home Recording Connection. It would seem as if the purpose of this site would prohibit some of the "I am Pro, listen to me" syndrome we are experiencing. And the exposive retorts to difference of opinion; WoW! What's that all about? I'm sure Waldo has some good experiences to share but am I going to chance that to partake? What is to defend?
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 07:21 pm Quote:
By 'abuse' I mean normal wear and tear from everyday use, such as cables being inserted and removed nine times a night five nights a week for ten years, faders being pushed up and down thousands of times a night
i wouldnt say that thats exactly 'normal' use, at least not for the bulk of people on here. note, as walt points out, that we're 'home recording connection'...
theyre valid points, but im prepared to bet a very small percentage of people on here use their gear that hard...
and everyone should feel welcome to share their opinions and experiences here at HRC, thats what the place is for. even you walt ;-)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 07:27 pm Oh golly flame, does that mean the wedding is still on?
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 07:28 pm which one? if its the one i think it is, it probably isnt...
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 07:29 pm if that makes sense....
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 07:45 pm Oh what shall I do with my new gown? Oh the embaresment. Oh well, it will make a good tarp for the motorcycle.
Dec 21, 2004 07:57 pm Well, in all fairness to all parties, yes, this is a home recording forum, but, the original post does ask about live sound mixers, so both points are perfectly valid, so everybody please, just relax...
Waldo, Walt is not an insulting sort, no need to take his question immediately as a backharded statement and jump on the defensive, seemed to me to be a valid question of conversation, I was kinda thinkin the same thing myself, but I had already said my piece in this thread...
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Dec 21, 2004 10:57 pm I know I am cool...And I was going into a rant when I thought the same thing...That this is the HOME R.C. but the original post was about live...so I cut it off...
And dB in all fairness to us getting defensive...its always harder to tell actual emotional intentions in typed words and in this case the posts were like sermons...rather than a note here or there...
Then again I am a simple fool when it comes to all around homework, Ij ust know good stuff when I hear it...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 21, 2004 11:16 pm WEll in support of Behringer taking some drastic abuse. I dumped a full can of Coke down into mine and it was panic city as I dove around the racks to hit the power off. I thought I surely had fried that sucker for good. But upon opening it up, and dong some serious mopping and cleaning, it was good as new.
And as well I am sure I subject my boards, (yes I own several Behri's) to above average abuse. Meaning I run them for an average 8 hours daily. On weekends it is not uncommon for my gear to be on 20 hours at a wack. And I must confess, it still runs flawlessly without a wimper.
As for on the road, I can only attest to knowing several peeps who use them and havent had any trouble either.
Nuff said!
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 22, 2004 03:02 am Noise,
I'm afraid this has little to do with Behringer. Or any other audio equipment. Read the post carefully. We have peoples lives hanging in the balance, we are refering to a "higher power" in terms of "credentials" we are flatly refusing to have our opinion changed when no one is asking that. Two pages over it's "loves ya all". All bases are covered and no room for negotiaion. Instant escalation to impass with little or no provocation.
Think about it.
Dec 22, 2004 04:44 am What have i started?????
Anyway Santa had a very limited choice in his selection when he went shopping last night. A Meridian mixer thing with stageline speakers - all for €1000. At the risk of starting another avalanche (albeit very interesting avalanche) has meridian good a good reputation? (not that it matters too much now seeing as its bought - but it would give me inner peace to think i havent screwed up completely).
Dec 22, 2004 09:27 am Oh come on Walt, I didn't say anyone was wrong to have their opinion, nor did I say anyone was right or wrong, nor challenge anyone, I simply put my opinion down and was asked questions about my opinion, which I answered. I didn't bring up 'credentials' at all, you asked, instead of dropping them I gave you a very vague answer. The remainder of the post was answers to questions asked by other members, obviously directed at me. Note the large number of question marks in the posts between mine. Anywho, if you want to fight (and turn to name calling), go ahead, I'll just continue to answer the question posed, without any emotion whatsoever!
Laurina, don't worry about it. Some people don't agree with the way I read things exactly as they are written, and answer with cold fact or my experiences without sugar coating things. Note I didn't get shot at for knocking Mackie a little...
I haven't heard many negatives about Meridian other than they can be tough to find parts for, but being as you've probably bought new, you've got nothing to worry about.
W.
Dec 22, 2004 09:33 am new is warrant, warranty is good.
Oh, something Noize and I chuckled about on the phone last night...Noize accidently dumped a soda on his Behringer and after drying it continued to work, a friend of ours dumped a beer on his Mackie and it burnt out 4 channels...
oh, and for the record, I have never dumped anything on anything... :-)
Everyone has different opinions, I personalyl don't care, I like by Behringer, and I like a friends Mackie, another friend has a Ghost, and it's very cool, nobody has had problems with any of them.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Dec 22, 2004 11:28 am No Waldo, your fine. I am thinking this is my baggage not yours. I obviously don't know you and I surely must have misread (or read into) your post. Probably partially due to timing. This comes on the heals of a little episode that went from zero to exchanges of skud posts in 9 seconds flat. That tale was about being "right" and "ego" not the topic. As far as "name calling" no I have no names to call. And per "fighting" no, my posture was let's just go post somewhere else for a bit and let this one calm down.
As far as topic, I can definately see where if I were to consign the care of equipment I purchased over to Grog, Bubba, and Egore I would buy the finest warranty available. I too have faced this fact of life in the delivery systems of medical equipment. I spent a lot of money on insurances and custom made crates. Every nickle of that money had excelent roi in the end. In terms of sonic value, for most of the gigs I participate in I could use Rad Shack stuff. The audiance is busy gettin smashed, chattering with friends, watching the antics of the performers...it's entertainement. Folks want to dance, yell, laugh, they don't care about ohms, db's, thd, and sundry eieio.
