nice kick and bass gtr
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Posted on Aug 25, 2004 02:37 pm
fortymile
Member Since: Jan 18, 2003
yesterday i worked on separating kick and bass guitar. i was hoping someone was into this aspect of mixing. i had a question.
what i did seems pretty good to my ears and now i want to know if these stats on the frequencies make sense or if i'm tweaking a bad part of the spectrum. usually in those articles i see a range listed for where you want to boost the kick, or whatever, so i'll just tell you that the kick and the bass look very closely positioned but still sort of seperated. the bass is peaking close to 90 hz and the kick closer to 65. if you watch the frequency plot in real time, what you see is basically an X: the kick falls off as the bass rises, and they cross in the middle. this is all happening within the 62-125 hz range. each sound also has a spike in the midrange for definition.
i'm going for the nirvana 'in utero' sound, after realizing that my bass is always weak-sounding. on the song 'scentless apprentice' in particular, the bass is boomy and ghostly, like a shadowy feeling in the background that you feel with your body...it blends with the drums so powerfully.
i read in an article that some people find the peak of the kick and the bass sound and then add a bit of EQ on either the doubled frequency or the halved one. like for a kick at 65, ya might add some 130 as well. sort of like a harmonic enhancement i guess. anyone ever try that?
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vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 25, 2004 02:54 pm That sounds like an interesting way of doing it. I will try that out.
Personally, I find myself eq my kick around 65Hz like yourself. Letting compression give the punch to it, letting eq give the tone I guess you can say. Bass, I still trying to get that down without interfering with the kick. The best way I have found, have the kick low and kicking, like most albums now, with the bass smooth and filling being eq higher some. That's the goal here. I like what I hear with your technique, I'm going to try that.
Aug 25, 2004 03:03 pm this is encouraging, then, to hear that the bass should sit a bit above the kick in terms of frequency. i just read blueninjastar's great article on mixing and according to that, it sounds like i nailed the appropriate peaks for both kick and bass. 60 and 80, he says. i'm at like 62 and 90-something. my ears have never really worked before, so i'm excited. it lets me ask a narrower question, too. if they're peaking in the "right" place, then my next question is how much rolloff is appropriate? my "X" looks pretty broad. i suppose for greater definition i might now want to sharpen that X by rolling off the kick near where the bass starts to surface, and roll off the bass more sharply where the kick is thumping. but when you roll off like this, how much is good?
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 25, 2004 10:29 pm Forty,
Per my experience, I definately agree with punching up the first harmonic of the kick a little to add "Punch" to the kick sound. At least I enjoy the sound of a well defined front edge of the kick. If it's arguement between the two voices I usually elect to cut the one I want to hear less of in the spirit of making room for the other to come through naturaly; that's at the root frequency. I agree with 80 for the bass, that usually works the best for me. Kick more depends on the kick but 60ish sounds real ball park. Obviously this is all subjective and only per my playing around. Roll off I try to balance between most effect for definition between voices, usually a pretty steep roll off and reataing the natural voice of the instrument I am applying the eq to; usually broadening the roll off.
Anyway, that's what I have learned so far. I will suscribe to this thread to see what others are doing as it has always been somewhat difficult for me to get a great kick sound on some heavier rock pieces.
Thanks for the questions!
Aug 26, 2004 02:28 am yes and thank you guys. this is a really important area. its the foundation of everything. maybe we can keep it going and devote the thread to methods for getting a really solid low end...
i am enjoying the results so far.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 26, 2004 08:05 am Yes indeed, threads going over methods is a must need! Also, if we can give examples of before and after. Like this thread, take the bass and kick of a song we are working on and show how it sounded before and after, telling what we did to get that result. Of course, that will take time in our part and storage somewhere. Maybe I can get my server up and running sometime soon and we can think about that.
Aug 26, 2004 09:22 am Right now I'm experimenting on getting a nice full range kick. I can get the clicky sound down perfect but it looses all the 'punched in the chest' feeling. If I get close I will post it for you guys.
Also, taking an idea I read somewhere else on the 'net *gasp*, you can give the bass that full tight but huge sounds (somewhat) by automating the notes played by the bass. It's tedious and takes a long time but it makes the bottom end sound really full. Of course you can also do it to just some of the notes to give them definition.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 26, 2004 09:26 am True, that can help in some cases. I have found that compression is the main sqeeze in kick. I set the ratio and threshold, but adjusting the release and attack (along with more volume after that sometimes) makes the punch in the chest.
Aug 26, 2004 10:17 am My favorite kick drum trick is still taping a quarter on the drum head right where the beater hits it (but on THE OTHER side of the head) it gives the kick a great, sharp snap but still keeps a lot of the thuddy power too. It works especially well in separating kicks in double-kick kits.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 26, 2004 10:21 am That sounds sweet too. Man, see, this thread has already got some sweet moves rolling here.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Aug 26, 2004 11:52 am jues mentioned once about going through a drum aprt and inserting a dance kick sound where each real kick happens...mixed pretty lo so ya dont really hear them, but with enough presence to give that OMMMPHHHA feel that ya get with dance music.
never tried it myself, but the theory seems sound...
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 26, 2004 11:57 am Yeah, the band Chevelle does it some. Don't know if anyone here has heard of them, but in one song they use it on like every other kick beat to give that deep descending bass drop. Sounds neat.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 26, 2004 11:58 am Oh, let me correct you flame.
OOOMMMMMMMMphhhhhhhhaaaaaaaa.....
Does that work?
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Aug 26, 2004 12:07 pm thatll do...i was trying not to appear too into dance...
Aug 26, 2004 01:57 pm vdale, which chevelle song comes to mind? i'd like to listen to that technique.
i dont record real drums, so i'm using fruity with some drum samples of mine, and running them through a drums compression setting and 'acoustic room' reverb. it doesnt give a perfect result, but its the best combo of presets i've yet found. i will next have to figure out whats wrong with it. it sounds a bit artificial at the moment, the sound quality itself. even after adjusting velocities for a more natural feel. it's probably not the samples, so it must be the compression setting :(
but that's for a later work session.
Aug 26, 2004 03:05 pm The Chevelle song is 'Comfortable Liar'. I love that song but I think they use it more as an effect then just for beefing up the kick.
Aug 26, 2004 03:06 pm The Chevelle song is 'Comfortable Liar'. I love that song but I think they use it more as an effect then just for beefing up the kick.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Aug 26, 2004 05:02 pm Yep BennisHahn (member since Aug. 29, '03? haven't seen you around)
Very cool...I absolutly love Chevelle's recordings. Something about them that really catch the excitement in the rock!
