Help with Singer
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Posted on Jul 18, 2004 11:48 pm
AK Redline
Seconds From The End
Member Since: Jun 16, 2003
Welp, our singer is not too good... we dont want to get rid of him though. What things can we do as a band to make him a better singer hes never on pitch 100%... and he sounds kinda nasaly. any advice? thx
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WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 19, 2004 12:17 am A lot of singers have problems projecting. Stomech breathing can help a lot with that, as well as just time in with support from the group. Singing "scat" is a great way to practice and correct intonation. You know the jazz / swing non word specific lead technique. Diddley be bop op op boo stuff. Great target practice for intonation. Easy to make up as you go.
Micing from slightly above the singers mouth forcing the singer to stretch a little and sing up and out also helps.
Ear training and learning to listen to "beat" frequencies is also very good. If you can teach the singer to listen for the beat produced by out of tune pitches while being supportive this will help a lot.
guitwizzNothing doesnt give me gasMember
Since: May 25, 2004
Jul 19, 2004 12:53 am some people are just born not being able to discern notes..... pure and simple, aka "tin ear", "tone deaf". There are different degrees of this too. Some waver a bit now and then, some are never on at all. I do a few excercises with my students with the ear thing.
You can help a persons ear by simply having them try over and over to match pitches of an instrument, guitar, piano, works well. Just play the notes, have them sing the note. The ear is like a muscle, when you work out your muscles, they become more responsive, accurate, blah blah. Same with the ear. The excercises unfortunately have to be done in horrendous repititions to get any results, and many peoples lose commitment before much result is achieved.
Jul 19, 2004 02:44 am i'm wondering what can be done about the nasal thing too. i hate the nasal sound of my voice, but i dont think there's anything i can do to change the timbre short of getting an operation on my head.
we had a singer who coudln't hit the right notes and what happened with him was we just kept "sort of" prodding him, cause it can be hard to tell someone they're not doing it right if they have a big ego (and a lot of singers do). what finally happened was we just got rid of him. so, i dunno, maybe have him sing while listening to a vocal channel of his voice coming through headphones. a lot of times i will go out of key just because i need the volume of my vox to be loud enough so that i dont over or undershoot the note. the singer for our joke band was like that, but when we tracked vocals and he had a headphone feed, he could suddenly sing in key.
tuning a guitar is great practice for learning to discern pitches since the key skill in matching pitch for singing seems to be able to know instantly if you need to adjust higher or lower. many people i've met who are new to guitar simply cant do this. they'll tune to fret 5's and hear something that's a bit off and then turn the key in the wrong direction. so most of the work people need to do seems to be with the very fine gradations.
guitwizzNothing doesnt give me gasMember
Since: May 25, 2004
Jul 19, 2004 03:05 am If you gently shoot people that cant sing, that may work....hehe
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 19, 2004 03:49 am Just how do you 'gently' shoot anyone... with a feather-gun ? Sponge-gun ?
We made our singer from a rhythm guitarist . Yup, sticks, and snails, and alot of practice . He just kept at it 'til he was comfortable with the role, and then it just clicked . I think it helps alot that he just has a naturally pleasant voice, even for talking .
Jul 20, 2004 03:57 am Interesting indeed. I'm a singer in a band, so maybe i can give somethings from their perspective. The question seems to be, whether or not he has the ability somewhere inside to sing in tune and is just being lazy, or whether he really cant sing in tune no matter how hard he tries, whichll take a lot of practise.
If its the first case, then i'd suggest you record him somehow during practice. I've yet to meet anyone who doesnt whince when they hear themselves singing out of tune, so if he hears how bad it sounds, you may not actually have to say anything.
The other point is how often or badly offtune he is. If its not too often, maybe he can practise sliding up or down to the right intonation: when singing live, you can get away with this, coz the listeners pay attention to the last thing they hear, and ignore whats come before it.
The headphone thing is a good idea... seriously, make sure he can hear himself on the monitor setup. I was new to singing and didnt have the confidence to say to the others "sorry, i simply cant hear myself in this setup" for ages. I appear to be lucky though, as even if i cant hear myself i can still sing in tune from the feeling in my stomach/diaphragm.
If he really is holding the band back, that is the best way of approaching the subject. Choose the band member he respects the most to have a quiet word with him, and say he's holding the bad back, but you really dont wanna kick him out. That can have an immediate effect.
Good luck... and remember, for live singing, perfect intonation isnt as important as charisma and vocal charm ;) But of course, there's limits to how "imperfect" you should be...
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 20, 2004 11:48 pm Forty,
I surely don't know about the nasel thing. It seems to me I have heard your vocals and I don't have that perception. As I remember your vocals are very good. The only things I can think of that probably have nothing to do with the tea in China are projection and a tendency I have to try to match the timbre of the instrument I am playing instead of using my natural voice. All of that is so hard to explain for me. I can only say I do my best if I listen to my voice as a seperate instrument and sing three feet in front of me. Sorry, I know both of those concepts are inexplicable perceptions, but it's all I gots!
Jul 30, 2004 02:27 am Have your singer go to www.voicelesson.com and take some free singing lesson advice from Mark Baxter. He is a teacher I trust. I even took some voice lessons from him through the mail for $50.00 a lesson, and he's worth it. You send him a tape of your singing, and he can pick out the problems. He mails you back a video voice lesson.
I've been to voice teachers in my area that have messed me up. If someone doesn't catch your mistakes, you just cause damage or can't pull things off.
I like Mark's philosophy: If it doesn't feel right or causes any strain sensation at all, you're doing it wrong. You have to kind of let your voice teach you, especially during warm up which is a must!
www.karynwhittemore.com
Jul 30, 2004 06:54 am Hey Karyn
Steven Tyler is on his list of clients...man, NOBODY can teach Toxic Tyler a thing!!!
He has one of the best voices I ever heard in ma life....and live, man, he rocks!
Still - some good advice in the free lessons...
Coco.
Jul 30, 2004 06:58 am Yeah, he does rock, I have seen Aerosmith live many times, always a great show.
Jul 30, 2004 07:05 am For sure...I made a 500 odd mile trip to London to watch Aerosmith 3 years ago at Wembley..Toxic Twins Ball it was billed as...
Was fantastic. Saw them live at Donnington 94 - Get A Grip was taking over..it was fantastic!
What a singer man. I saw them live with GNR too, THAT was cool. Tyler/Rose Perry/Slash all playin at the same time "Train Kept A Rollin'"...
Now, THAT my friends, is rock n roll!
Coco.
Jul 30, 2004 07:08 am The two I remember seeing were Rock in a Hard Place and Back in the Saddle Tours (yeah, I'm that old) I saw them once or twice since then, but not sure exactly which tours...Joe Perry is the king of rock guitar, and, well, Tom is one of the great, but under-rated bass players of hard rock. He doesn't get the credit he deserves, largely, I assume because Perry and Tyler get all the glory.
Jul 30, 2004 10:18 am neuaddsibly is bang on. I also sing in a band and yes, if I hear myself going off-key, it is very painful to listen to. Best thing is to record a practice and have him listen to it. If he doesnt hear that he has a problem, then there may not be much you can do. If he does then he can try the fine suggestions already being provided. See if he can set up a basic home recording setup so that he can record himself at home and listen to it... I sometimes record myself with a karaoke backing mp3 to see how I sound.
Coco as I understand it (dont quote me on this) apparently Tyler was having problems with losing his voice and Baxter helped coach him on how to not wreck his voice when he was on tour.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jul 31, 2004 12:08 am Honestly, I will third the "record him and let him hear how off he is" tactic. Another thing is that the more you sing, just like any other discipline, the better you will be. See if there are any "informal" acapella or choral groups in your region he might be interested to join. He may not want to do it, or think it's not cool, but if you need to practice you need to practice. And, he'll probably be cool with it if he enjoys singing. And if he doesn't enjoy singing, well then, I don't know what to say. I rap and do hip hop, but I love singing in acapella groups. Mmmm, vocal harmony.
BrunoThe Quiet MindedMember
Since: Jan 01, 2003
Jul 31, 2004 01:12 am teach him to play guitar! hehehe
AK RedlineSeconds From The EndMember
Since: Jun 16, 2003
Jul 31, 2004 12:07 pm haha, i didnt think this thread would survive for as long as it did! well we fixed the problem... we kicked him out! and got a new guy in check out our new songs. big improvement if you have heard the last guy. www.pahardcore.com/bands/bands.cfm?id=9660
Jul 31, 2004 02:41 pm Well - that'll solve the problem AK!
Still..if your band will function better sometimes you have to be a bit ruthless - especially if you want to progress and grow as a band.
We used to have a "drummer" in an old band - I say "drummer" cause well..he wasnt!! He was a mate, a good guy and an original member of the band but he could not play drums well at all! When we booted him oot, it was kinda hard but the band improved tenfold.
So - good luck to ya.
Coco.
Aug 01, 2004 01:09 am It's very difficult to do a band. Somebody doesn't show or isn't good enough. I just do the singer/songwriter thing. It's much easier than trying to crunch 4 or 5 peoples schedules.
