Dec 02, 2003 07:29 am whats a deca tree?
Large Group Deca Tree Specifications.
Posted on Dec 02, 2003 12:04 am
Walt
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member Since: May 10, 2002
Sorry, this has been an obsession for about a year now. And I finally stumbled across some decent specs on how to create the array....Sooo.. I'm a sharin it! Yehaa!
Using Large diaphram cardioids, stack them head to head forming a coincidental array. Face each @ 45deg of center straight on forming a 90 to 135deg arc between the two. Place the stack at 6 to 6.5 Feet above the performance floor just behind the conductor. Place one large diaphram omni 75 cm to the rear and 70cm to the left of the stack. Place another lDO 75 cm back and to the right. Both omnies are to be the same height above performance floor as the cardioids. After PFL, pan both cardioids center and the omnies far left and right. You should not "hear" the to cardioids. Record each mic into a speperate track or channel per your persepctive. During mix down use the cardioids to create a full but tight stereo field. You may have to eq a little boom out of the bass. One problem with directional stereo micing. Use the omnies to expand the stereo field and add room ambiance. For 5 point surround use two cardioids aimed at the back wall of the performance hall to capture back bounce. Use the stacked pair as front center channel.
Oh, at least now I feel better. I promised someone I would find this about a year ago. Can't remember who or when, but I know I did!
[ Back to Top ]
Dec 02, 2003 08:17 am A mic array used by Decca recording since the 50's. Real good for Live Studio recordings.
Dec 02, 2003 12:31 pm Yep, it is designed for large group recording. And it works great as well for almost anything. I used a modified version to record drums a few times, as well as full bands. If you try recording a small rock combo with it you gotta make sure everything is set up just right or you dont get a decent stereo picture at all. But if done right, it gives a great live picture even in a smaller space.
Oh ya, thanx Walt for the great tip.
Dec 02, 2003 12:32 pm hey, how about you get off the forum and finish your Project 5 review if you have so much time! :-D
Dec 05, 2003 09:56 pm Ok,
Quick note and I will let this one die off. Did a test with the Deca Tree mic array and it is everything it was said to be. Very good spacial representation of the group. Real easy to record and mix. Masters well as well. Add effects that I was not anticipating but understand now thinking about it. Less bass boom and better moderated room effects. Definately one for the bag-O-tricks.
Dec 06, 2003 01:19 am Say you're recording a 4 piece rock band with a decca tree. How do you get the vocals to tape?
I am interested in tracking some live demos in a relatively small room. Though about close micing everything in the same room letting plenty of bleed hoping for a minimum of phase trouble. Then I though I might try a more natural live micing technique a la decca tree or other technique...
Dec 06, 2003 12:43 pm TYY,
Ok, Have them set up in a stage performance arrangement, i.e. as they would normally for a gig. Set the front mics about 8 foot in front of the group dead center. Here's the kicker; You will need at least 16 foot between the back mics and the rear wall.
As you can see, this is not really a technique compatable to small room, depending of course what you consider a small room to be.
Most rock bands that I have encountered need to generate a lot of volume to to get the sound they want. This makes micing them extreamly difficult in close quarters. As you noted they bleed all over each other. One method to use if they are unable to play one at a time for a layered demo is to DI all of the instruments and vocals that you can. Then over dub the ones you can not DI with the performer listening in headphones. If you like you can listen to an example of close micing in my profile under Project Dead, Huh. But here again I had to use a pretty good sized area and a lot of cubicle dividers to get decent isolation. And the vocalist had to use cans and overdub his piece in another session.
Dec 06, 2003 02:22 pm Well, here is my original plan. I want to get an old school "band in a room" sound. I have drums, bass (vocals), acoustic guitar (vocals), and electric guitar. Playing country/rock.
Put the drums, bass amp, guitar amp in the main room. I have no baffles, so aim the guitar amp away from the drums to limit bleed. The bass will taken DI to recorder, the bass amp will be left in the room to help the drummer lock, and give a little bleed. I wonder if this is a bad idea and I will get bass phase problems. I figure I can align the DI bass track in my DAW to minimize the issue.
Drums will mic'd probably like this: mic in kick, snare, single overhead. I could do stereo overheads, but I think a mono drum sound would be cool. Also with the bleed into the guitar amp, which will be panned, I figure that will widen the drum image a bit. The snare mic may not even be needed.
I will put the bass player in an iso booth (read: bathroom) with a vocal mic and a set of cans. Same for the acoustic guitarist/vocalist, except I'll also put a mic on the guitar. He'll be in another "booth." The bathrooms are carpeted (70's home) so they are not very live at all.
With this setup, as along as there are no major phase issues, I figure mixing will be a breeze. Little to EQ, some compression and I'm done.
What do you think?
Dec 06, 2003 07:21 pm Sounds pretty solid to me!
A couple of other suggestions, not better ones, just other ones. 1. Put a set of cans on the drummer as well. 2. If the drummer has a large array of cymbals, use two mics and mix to mono.
The bass bleed with your set up depends totaly opon the volume of the bass and the area of the room. A small room will fold bass frequencies back on themselves per the huge length of the bass wavelength and cause a real boomy effect. This may be picked up by the drum mics. The whole room becomes a bass chamber. The only phase problems I can predict might be the bleed bass in the drum mics with the DI bass.
Personally, I would try the set up you origionally discribed, but be ready to go to plan B, if problems arrise.
Good Luck!
|
Related Forum Topics: |
If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.