Matched Mic Pairs and Drum Overheads
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Posted on Oct 14, 2003 05:18 pm
PorpoiseMuffins
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
It's that time again... Time for me to ask a question :)
I'm in a bit of a fix. I really want some more mics for micing drums, as I only have 5 and would like at least 6. At the moment I use a 57 for the snare, Sennheiser evolution for the kick, a Groove Tubes GT66 tube condenser for one overhead, an old Sony condenser mic from the 70's (My dad bought way back...) for the other overhead, and a second Sony for... uhhh... one of the toms-- Wichever I think is most important in the song, or sometimes I don't even use it.
So ultimately I'd like to get 3 new mics (The 2 upper toms can share 1). I've been looking at buying either a Behringer B1 condensor to sort of compliment my GT66 as an overhead, or a matched pair of 'shotgun' condensors to use as overheads instead. (Or perhaps both, eventually)
So my question here is whether or not having a matched pair of overhead mics is really all that important. I could go with the shotgun (I believe that's what they're called...) mics and end up without a good place for my GT66 (my best mic) to really go. So I'd rather just buy a Behringer B1 or Octava mic for $100 to go with the GT66 (I could never afford another $500 GT66). Does it really matter that much whether they're matched or not? Better yet, does it matter if they're perfectly factory matched (purchased in a matched pair)?
I still might like to get the shotgun mics, even if I get a B1, to use on the toms and for stereo imaging while recording acoustic guitar and the like (When I get the money).
So what should I do? I'm leaning towards just buying a B1 and using the Sony's on the toms for the time being- probably replacing them with 57's eventually.
Also-- What is the best way to place overheads? Lately I've been thinking about setting them up facing opposite directions starting in the center rather than being on opposite ends facing inwards, like I've been doing for a long time. It seems to me that facing them opposite might help fix phasing problems.
By the way, I've been getting a lot of hi-hat bleeding into my snare drum mic, which makes the hats sound really harsh since I like to EQ the snare drum a lot differently than the cymbals. Perhaps it's just because my hi-hats are terrible. Any ideas on fixing this? I'd like to get the hit-hat's so they aren't so loud and obnoxious.
I appreciate any feedback! I know this post in itself is probably rather loud (err... long) and obnoxious ;) Thanks guys!
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MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Oct 14, 2003 06:45 pm porp - is your snare mic pointed in the direction of the hats? if so, point it so that it's facing towards the toms instead. also what helps when using 1 mic for snare is to mic the shell of the drum rather than the top or bottom heads. it gives it a distinct "crack".
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Oct 14, 2003 08:02 pm Hey Prop.
Micing drums isn't much fun is it :| Annoys the hell out of me but it is great to start a session with great sounding drums.
In the past I was forced to use an AKG C1000 and a Rode NT-1 as overhead mic's on a kit, and the results were usable, but not ideal. I noticed differences between the two mics which became even more apparent under heavy compression, however, it is a good 'cheap fix'.
Luckily we found the second C1000 under a chair, I was happy again and now use a matched pair of these. They work well as overhead mic's, but they do sound quite "thin" (they are 'small diagphram condensor' mic). I would prefer a pair of Rode NT-1s, that would make me happier, AKG414's even more so :D
Placing your overhead mic's in the center (just infront of the kick) facing outwards over the kit helps to increase the sense of seperating you are getting from the overhead mics - however, it is reccomended to do this with small diaphragm condensor mics for best results.
If you purchased a pair of mics for the overheads, you could still use your GT66 as an ambient mic - I have recently descovered the joys of ambient mics in my drum mixes, they add a great deal of "phatness" (no other word :) to the sound - especially if you have a good sounding room in the first place.
As for the problem with the snare / hats level. Try mixing from the overheads up. Start with your overhead mics, EQ them so they sound nice and tight but make sure you roll off below 450Hz. Next mix in the kick drum, eq it so it sits well with the overheads.
Now mix in the snare, if the hats are too loud, use eq to try and "notch" out the main problem frequencies.
Sorry, I waffle :)
Regards
jues
Oct 14, 2003 09:06 pm Thanks, Jues-- Huge help-- Waffling and all :)
So you wouldn't necessarily recommend using different mics for overheads but don't think it would be that big of a deal? I don't think it will bother me too much since it hasn't in the past and I can EQ them seperately to make them sound similar. I think I'm going to get a B1 for another overhead since I don't have a lot to spend, but I'm not in a big hurry at the moment so I guess we'll see how things turn out. Thanks for the tips on placement. I'll try that out. I'll also begin mixing with oveheads first-- sounds like a good idea. I appreciate the ideas.
Minkus- I'll try out micing the snare on the shell. I do have the mic facing away from the hi-hats. Thanks for the advice.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Oct 14, 2003 09:07 pm I have and probably will again, used the Oktava MK319s as overheads. They are a large diaphram so they have a bit more oomph to them. they are warm and fuzzy as well. It does take a bit of moving to get them in the right spot as each kit is differant. But once you find the spot, as jues says, matched pairs are the way to go for overheads. There are other good choices out ther as well. But be prepared to pay a bit more for matched pairs. You can however get by with just buying a a pair (not matched) of the same mic and get very good results as well.
Oct 15, 2003 03:06 pm Thanks, Noize. What exactly makes a mic pair matched? Is it just that they sound exactly alike? I would really like to get another GT66 for the second overhead. That would be awesome. But there's no way at all I could ever justify that price point right now-- especially when I would only be using it while recording drums! I think I've made up my mind now. I think what I'll do is buy a small diaphragm condensor for less than $200 and just use it on the other side of the set for the time being. Then when I get some more cash to spend, I'll buy another of the same mic for the other side, and either phase out the GT66 or use it on the hi-hat or something (any more ideas for where to use it?). I'm looking at the Rode mics, like the NT5. We'll see. I just can't see myself buying 2 more large-diaphragm condenser mics just to mic my set. Do you know what I mean? That would be overkill at this point in my life. My friends would think I was RICH! -- although they already think that and I don't even have a job :D
Oct 15, 2003 03:52 pm How about the Rode NT3? I guess the NT5 can only be bought in a matched pair.
Oct 15, 2003 08:27 pm Okay, NT3 it is :)
(I just got a recommendation from a trusted outside source)
TYYMember
Since: Mar 04, 2003
Oct 20, 2003 01:20 am Why would you want shotgun mics for overheads??
Ideally, you should have a matched pair if you are doing stereo overheads, unless you are going for a special effect. As far as placement- for cardioids, xy coincident is nice and easy and eliminates phase issues. OTRF will give a truer (is that a word?) stereo image. For omnis, a spaced pair in a nice room will give a great big image of the kit.
Depends on what you are trying to get from the overheads.
Oct 20, 2003 02:17 pm "Why would you want shotgun mics for overheads??"
I think the question here is why wouldn't I? :D
Now I'm leaning more towards going with the matched pair of NT5's since it's only $300 for the two of 'em and they've got rave reviews.
Basically, I don't want to spend $500 on another GT66 when I could get 2 matched mics for only $300 which could be used along with the GT66 as well. Plus I like to branch out and get myself aquainted with different brands of microphones :)
TYYMember
Since: Mar 04, 2003
Oct 20, 2003 10:17 pm Shotgun mics have a VERY narrow pickup pattern and will not give a good image of the kit.
They can be quite useful for micing a hat or snare when you want to reduce bleed. Hypers are also good for this and can even be used as overheads.
