Just bought a new pre-amp...
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Posted on Sep 01, 2003 02:37 pm
PorpoiseMuffins
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
Well, I went to Guitar Center today for their big "list" event, looking for the ART TPS preamp system. They didn't have it, but they did have the Behringer UltraGain Pro tube preamp for only $50. It was a floor model, but I said, "Hey, what the heck, can't go wrong with $50 when the thing is normally $150 or so." So I asked the salesguy and he gave me the usual speal about Behringer gear being crap. He showed me some frequency analyzer (Made by Behringer) in the rack of Behringer equipment and told me to look at the little screen on it, pointing out how much noise the thing was producing by itself. Of course, who the heck knows where that noise was coming from, or if it even was noise. So he just left and I asked someone else if they would help me. I bought the unit and took it home. Well, it certainly doesn't sound real noisy or anything, but I'm not sure if it's real great since I've never tried any other pres other than the ones I have in my behringer board. I can take it back if I don't like it. So should I save my money and buy the ART TPS, or should I just keep the Behringer and maybe buy the ART, or another preamp, sometime later?
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juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Sep 01, 2003 04:09 pm Hey Prop
I have used the UltraGain Pro (it's the one with the tube in the middle, isn't it?) - I thought it was ok, nothing special, it did the job of amplifying the signals, can't really comment on the quality of it tho, sorry.
(My focusrite arrives tommorow - yay!)
jues.
Sep 01, 2003 09:54 pm Oooooo... Tell me what you think of it when you get it :)
Yeah, it's the one with the tube in the middle. I'm wondering what I should do here. If I had a sound card with more than 4 inputs then I would keep the Behringer and get a little more expensive pre too. But as it is now I can only really use one stereo pre at once (since I'm also using my mixer), and I'd like it to have input jacks in the front, and be a bigger step up from the MX pres. Then again, maybe someday I'll get a bigger sound card. In that case, It might come in really handy.
About the actual performance of the unit-- I thought it sounded very clean, but, like you sai, nothing special. I noticed that there was a good deal less noise than on the MX pres. I didn't even have to use my compressor's gate to make it sound like it was gated. I also noticed that when I cranked up the input gain I got a lot of distortion-- Now, I expected this since it's a tube preamp. However, the sound was more like that of digital clipping rather than tube saturation. I don't think I was clipping the signal anywhere either. I'll have to test it out some more tomorrow. I'll probably return it and see If I can get that ART pre. Then again, $50 was a good deal...
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Sep 02, 2003 04:07 am By all means $50 (£30?) is a great deal, but then again it's not exactly the creme-de-la-creme of preamps...
The 'digital' distortion you got when o/ling the pre kinda hints at that, tho you do have to remember that most cheaper 'valve' preamps work on solid-state amplifiers which then feed to a valve. In most cases the valve will usually only apply about 6dB (sometimes less) of the gain stage!
jues.
Sep 03, 2003 09:13 am I guess it depends on how much $50 means to you. Form the reviews I read about that pre, it is no better than the pre's in the UB mixers, and I've heard that the tube part of it is almost worthless. Truth is that all of these low priced "tube" pre's don't really do what everyone hopes they will, which is to make an FET mic sound like a tube mic. The only thing I've heard from people that these lowcost "tube" pre's are sometimes good for is as a DI for bass. Most folks who use "tube" pre's, keep the tube circuit shut off. A tube pre is never going to make your non-tube mic sound like an NTK or any of the other tube mics.
Anyway, if $50 is not a lot of money to you, I'd just hang onto it. That was a decent enought price. However, if your really are trying to "improve" you sound over the Berry mixer you already have, I doubt this pre is going to help you.
YMMV
Blessings, Terry
Sep 03, 2003 02:02 pm Quote:
From the reviews I read about that pre, it is no better than the pre's in the UB mixers, and I've heard that the tube part of it is almost worthless.
That's interesting. I've heard that too. I don't have a UB mixer, though, so I guess it's still an improvement over the old MX pres.
Quote:
A tube pre is never going to make your non-tube mic sound like an NTK or any of the other tube mics.
Well, thankfully I already have a tube mic :) I've got the Groove Tubes GT66, so I don't think the Behringer Preamp will hurt the sound any, at least. I guess I'll test it out some more and then make a decision based on how it sounds to me. I'd like to keep it, but I'd also like to buy another tube pre, which would then kind of render the Behringer useless (Except for looking pretty) unless I bought a new soundcard for more inputs. The ART I want to get would cost $180 and has more features than the Behringer (Plus inputs in the front-- Why don't they always have them in the front??). So I really still don't know what to do, but I guess I shouldn't pull my hair out over $50, although I would like to use that towards the ART. Then again, there's always the question of how much better the ART is from the Behringer in the first place. I guess price difference when your dealing with budget stuff does tend to make more of a difference than when you're dealing with stuff over $1,000.
By the way, they also had a bunch of dbx 2-channel tube pres with digital out for only $300. I guess they are usually $500. I wanted to get one, but that was about $120 over my price range, and over my wallet. They also had some Avalons on display going for $1,500 or something... And that's supposed to be a good deal? :)
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Sep 03, 2003 09:39 pm Avalon... mmmmmmm tasty :D
Sep 05, 2003 09:55 am i'm looking at the ART TPS as well. does anyone think that this is another cheap tube pre to be avoided? They're going really cheap on eBay lately (<US$100)
SonicoMember
Since: Apr 19, 2002
Sep 05, 2003 09:56 am I have the ART TPS ($180)preamp and I'am very happy with it. I use it for vocals with an Audio Technica 3035 and for DI bass and it sounds very good (at least better than my behringer mixer's pres).
Sep 05, 2003 05:52 pm Yeah! That's what I want to hear :) I've decided I'm going to bring back the Behringer and save the money to order the TPS. There are some really positive reviews on electronicmusician.com for the DPS (Same as TPS w/ digital) and some of the other single channel ART tube pres, and they seem to compare very favorably to pres that are much more expensive. Plus it's got tons of I/Os and the variable valve voicing thing which sounds cool. Apparently the noise floor is really low compared to a lot of pre-amps, from what the EM chart says. Gotta love those VU meters too :) Zzounds also has a lot of good reviews, although there are a few comments about a noisy power supply. Have you noticed anything like that, Sonico? It was probably either a defective unit or something coming from something else in their signal chain. Anyways, I think I'm going to spring for it.
Sep 07, 2003 08:28 am Well, I just returned the Behringer unit. I asked the guys at Guitar Center if they had the ART unit, but they said they didn't carry ART stuff at the moment so they'd have to special order it. I think I'll just buy it through Musician's Friend. Someone came up to me at the store and asked if the Behringer pre-amp was broken. I assume he was going to bash the company if I told him it was, so I made it clear that that wasn't why I was returning it :)
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Sep 07, 2003 04:13 pm no...i think that they just ask for a reason why you are returning it. i'm not sure if they mark it down or whatever, but "i don't want it" is just fine.
Sep 07, 2003 10:05 pm No, this wasn't an employee, it was just another customer.
SonicoMember
Since: Apr 19, 2002
Sep 09, 2003 10:30 am I haven't had a problem at all with the ART TPS. I use it with a Behringer Autocom and (because of the compression) the noise is a little louder when using my AT 3035, but all the noise that I hear is from the room and from outside the room (I mean, no hiss or strange noises). I just dial in some of the expander section of the Autocom and the noise disappears without "gate type" artifacts.
Don't expect to hear a lot of coloration on your mics, but for me that is good. A Warm, yet clean sound and the bass sounds really good.
Again, I don't have fancy gear to compare it to but, in my case the upgrade from the Behringer pres has been huge.
I based my decision on reviews and comments from users. Also in some forum I heard a recording made (from an experimented engineer) with ART preamps, and evrybody in the forum tought that the guy used fancy and expensive gear. One of the guys that reviewd the recording positively was Joe Cicarelli.
Sep 09, 2003 03:10 pm Cool, thanks a lot, Sonico.
BobMember
Since: Jun 20, 2003
Sep 09, 2003 03:51 pm Sonico, Porp,
I am on the verge of getting an ART TPS also. I also have a Behringer MDX2600 Compressor and a Behringer B2 mic. I was wondering, for vocals, would it be best to use both the ART TPS and the Compressor. If I understand correctly, the TPS should give some desirable tube coloration to the sound (which includes some compression). I'm not sure what compressiion ratio would be provided by the TPS. If I add more compression downstream, would I be swamping-out the tube effects of the TPS?
Also, here's a philosophical question : What if the vacuum tube was never invented, ie what if the transistor came on the technology scene a few decades earlier? Would we know what rock music is supposed to sound like?
Sep 09, 2003 03:55 pm The TPS has an optional limiting effect that can be used if necessary, but it won't do the kind of compression that you want for vocals. Use the compressor too.
Sep 09, 2003 04:34 pm Quote:
What if the vacuum tube was never invented, ie what if the transistor came on the technology scene a few decades earlier?
you can probably bet you and i all these other computer users wouldn't be sitting here right now talking to each other from all over the world.
Sep 09, 2003 11:48 pm Porps the album that i sat in and helped on for Target Stores Christmas album they used an ultra gain pro on the AKGs they were using for Soprano and Alto sections of the choir and it really helped give it a really nice warm tone...
SonicoMember
Since: Apr 19, 2002
Sep 10, 2003 11:08 am Bob,
I dial the warm vocal preset on the ART Pre and then apply gain to saturate just a little bit.
On the MDX1600 (MDX2600 in your case)I subtle compress the signal and turn on the limiter section. Oh, and I expand to minimize room and ambient noises captured by the AT 3035.
Sep 10, 2003 07:33 pm Okay, I just ordered the TPS on Musicians Friend. Should be here shortly!
