Problems with vocal recording
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Posted on Oct 18, 2012 09:07 am
Shadie
Member Since: Oct 18, 2012
I am using an MXL 990 condenser mic, a Behringer Xenyx 802 Powered Mixer and a Behringer UCA 202 interface. When I record any instruments with the mixer and interface, everything sounds great. However, when I try to record vocals, its chaos. When it reaches a certain volume level, it sounds distorted, but if i have it a the volume level at which it won't be distorted, its too quiet to hear anything. I've tried bringing the volume down on the mixer so far that when i bring the playback volume on my software (which is Reaper) all the way up, i still can't hear it well and need to add gain on the EQs and Reverbs in order to hear it. But even when i do that, it still comes out distorted. I need some help cuz this is getting quite frustrating. And help ASAP would be great cuz my mom wanted me to make a CD for her birthday and her birthday was yesterday lol.
Thanks!
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Oct 18, 2012 09:11 am You don't mention any effects that are in the signal chain, do you run the microphone through a preamp and compressor at all before hitting the mixer? You are recording the instruments alright, so that begs the question, what instruments and how are you recording them?
Are you using the same cables between the vox mic and the instruments? Maybe different cables introduce the noise?
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 18, 2012 09:39 am The mixer has a preamp built into it. otherwise no i do not have it running through a compressor or other effects. I usually add those after they're recorded. As far as instruments, I typically do guitars and keyboards. And I use a 1/4 in. cable to plug them directly to the mixer. I don't use the same cables for the instruments and vocals cuz i use a XLR cable for the mic. I doubt the XLR cable has anything to do with it cuz its a pretty high quality cable.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 18, 2012 10:16 am I should also say that when I record, I usally put the recording volume on the recording software to the maximum volume level, and bring it down for playback. If that helps anything :p
Oct 18, 2012 11:10 am Well, for starters, even high quality cables have flaws or wear out over time, but that's cool, let's set that aside, though I do usually start looking at the simplest things first when trying to troubleshoot...cuz often that is where the problem lies.
Behringer mixers, while I like them, don't come with what I would call the best preamps in the world...and a little bit of compression is a good thing before it gets recorded, not as a final process to the vox, but just enough to bring the vox into a stable, usable signal, as vocals tend to be kind of tough to work with completely uncompressed unless you are dealing with a vocalist that is very experienced and has great control of his voice and microphone management.
At least that's my personal opinion.
Welcome to HRC, by the way.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 19, 2012 01:32 am Maybe you are doing this already, but put the main outputs of the mixer straight up and down, neither positive or negative. When you are recording vocals use the little black knob on channel 1 or channel 2, the gain to turn up the vocals (this is the preamp control). Make sure your channel level knob and main mix knob are straight up and down.
I'm not sure what the recording volume control on Reaper is, but it sounds, like you should put this at 0 also, neither positive or negative. See if these things help at all before buying anything.
Oct 19, 2012 11:12 am Shadie, yeah, actually that isn't too bad of a unit...I've used it, I've also used some of the less expensive (and more expensive) dbx units and they are quite good as well.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 19, 2012 12:06 pm Thanks Coolo! I didn't even think of that. I'll definitely give that a try. dB Masters. U have a specific "less expensive unit" in mind? I would greatly appreciate a few ideas being that im quite limited on income.
Oct 19, 2012 12:33 pm the dbx 166 and 266 are decent units.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 19, 2012 01:58 pm Ok cool thanks. Coolo, I tried your idea, but i didn't seem to get anywhere. Thanks anyway though. If you have any other ideas please let me know.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 19, 2012 04:40 pm You do have the phantom power turned on, right?
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 20, 2012 05:23 pm haha. yeah i do. My mic wouldn't work if I didn't. I was just thinking. Do you suppose its my mic that's giving me the problems? I've been looking up online how to solve this problem, and it seems that most of the other people having this issue is using the same mic that i am. However, when i look at the reviews on this mic, everyone loves it.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Oct 21, 2012 01:38 am I think alot of people use that mic. It is an entry level mic. It could possibly be the mic, but the only way to know for sure is to try with a different mic and see if you have same issues.
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 22, 2012 12:20 am I have that mixer and that mic, the mixer is pretty good for it's price, and the mic is excellent for the price. I'm pretty surprised that you're having a clipping issue if your input levels are set correctly. I guess I just want to re-iterate that you should follow the input chain step by step to make sure everything is turned way down on the way in and boosted on the way out. I used to boost my signal on the way in so I could hear it better on the way out. That was totally wrong of me. For digital recordings, you want it as quiet as possible on the way in, then you can crank it on the way out.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 22, 2012 08:56 am What do you mean by "on the way out" and "on the way in"? My interface doesn't have a volume control, so the mixer is the only thing i have with volume control other than the software. I've tried bringing the volume on the mixer WAY down, but I had to add a bunch of FX to the recorded media on the software to make it louder, and even with those it sounded distorted. Any ideas about what i maybe should try doing to the recorded media?
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 22, 2012 11:05 am Yikes, I just took a look at your recording interface...at this price point, forget about inline pads and compressors, the UCA needs to be replaced if we can't get a signal without clipping. However, you should be able to get a signal from the 990 without clipping.
The only control we have over the clipping levels you hear are located on the Xenyx, so don't fuss with the computer settings right now. Just make sure the headphones are turned up all the way.
I'm looking at my Xenyx now and here's what I recommend trying, in order.
1.) Plug ye olde microphone into microphone input 1, hallelujah.
2.) Take a gander down the channel strip for the first mic, make sure the EQ knobs are set straight up the middle to 0. Below the EQ knobby's you'll see an FX knob, turn that down to -infinite, by golly.
3.) Ensure the Pan knob is pointing right up the middle, pointing to that >< shape thing, sure enough.
4.) Have a look-see at yonder level knob at the bottom of the microphone 1 channel strip. Make sure it's pointing to about 8 o'clock, the goal is to make the level gain low, but not so low you can't hear it...lower is better, and that's a fact!
5.) Of course make sure the phantom power button is depressed, and then put the MAIN MIX knob at about 8 o'clock, the same position as the level 1 knob. By the beard of Zeus I declare it so!
6.) This should be a splendiferous configuration, and none of those knobs should need to change. There is one more knob that we will use to correct the clipping, now that the others are in place, the black Trim knob right below your microphone input. Swing that son of bitca back and forth to your hearts content. You should find a sweet spot that let's you vocalize cleanly and clearly. As we say in the hip hop community, "woop...there it is."
PS- If by happenstance, you still can't hear anything after trying the above steps turn the trim knob to about 9 o'clock and nudge the main mix knob up a tad or two. Make sure your computer speakers are set to full volume. If you STILL can't hear anything, I recommend a new sound card. You should be able to get something pretty good for between $70 and $`100
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 22, 2012 03:53 pm That certainly helped a bit, but I still need to add some volume effects to make it "hearable". You're saying I should be able to hear the recording without adjusting the volume on the software? I really don't think there's anything wrong with my sound card.
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 22, 2012 04:40 pm I explained how to get the lowest possible clean input signal from your microphone and pre-amp to the sound card. If the lowest possible signal is still too hot then this sound card is not going to work with your Xenyx and 990. The cheapest component to upgrade that will resolve this issue is a new sound card.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 23, 2012 09:35 am It's not that its too hot. It's just that its too quiet. If it was the sound card, why would the instruments record perfectly fine, but not the vocals?
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 24, 2012 10:29 pm If you hear clipping, your signal is too hot. If you can't hear the signal, then you either need to A.) turn it up somewhere, anywhere but the Xenyx, ...or B.) get an amplifier for your monitors.
To put it another way...if you can get a clean signal at any output level (even if it's not quite clear), then that's the level you need to be recording at going in (that means anywhere from teh microphone to the sound card). If boosting the volume on the Xenyx crosses that "hearable" boundary you're referring to, then you still have to turn down the Xenyx to get a clean signal, even if you can't hear it very well. If you can hear it and it's not distorted, you've already solved half of the problem.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 25, 2012 08:52 am Well, I can hear it and its not distorted, but it's just really quiet compared to the instruments. If I turn the instruments down, it won't sound too good. So if I've figured out half the problem, what's the other half?
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Oct 25, 2012 01:55 pm Try this experiment:
1.) record something at the low level that is clean but not completely audible. Don't bother mixing or anything, just capture the audio.
2.) Disconnect the microphone and sound card from your Xenyx.
3.) Connect the Xenyx to the sound card, but this time connect it to the output of the sound card. Use RCA cables to connect the soundcard output RCA jacks to the CD/Tape input RCA jacks on the Xenyx.
4.) Make sure the "CD/Tape to Mix" button is pushed in on the Xenyx
5.) Connect your speakers using RCA cables to the cd/tape output of the Xenyx
You won't be able to track and turn around and mix without first changing the configuration of the Xenyx, but you should be able to boost the output to listenable levels using the mix knob. If you want to more quickly transition between a recording configuration and a mixing configuration, you could buy an amplifier...but again we're getting into the territory where it's a better idea to purchase a new sound card than it is to spend money on an amplifier for a $30 sound card.
ShadieMember
Since: Oct 18, 2012
Oct 27, 2012 12:54 pm Just borrowed a compressor from a local music store nearby, and it really seemed to help me. I just kept the volume level down, and brought up the fx level, so that most of the sound was coming directly from the compressor. Then I can turn up the volume level on the software and it sounds great! I think I know now what to do to fix this. Thanks to all for your help! I'll post on this topic if I need anymore help in the future. :)
