Apr 19, 2010 09:29 am Tell the front guy to quit bein a dick with the classic "no I in team" speech. Then do somethin pretty much like you said when that doesn't work.
Joe's Pond Update
Posted on Apr 17, 2010 07:53 pm
Doug Babbitt
Sound as good as you play
Member Since: Dec 23, 2008
My apologies to Rob for shamelessly luring him to this thread. Click the following for details on "Ice Out 2010."
joespondvermont.com/iceout.html
Now to the question of the day. I watched 3 friends of mine perform with their band last night. They play 90s and newer rock, plus some original stuff. They are very tight, high energy, with good stage presence, but the sound could be better.
The core issue is the lead guy is a control freak. He controls the board, runs his vocals and guitar through processors and leaves the other guys hanging when it comes to vocals. I've worked with the drummer, who has a phenomenal voice, but needs compression to tame his incredible dynamic range. The bassist has a decent voice, but would also benefit from compression.
They have no concept of GBF or how to maximize it. Based on the way they arrange themselves, I've suggested closer attention to intersections of mic pickup patterns and speaker dispersion patterns. If they can't or won't move things, I suggested the Beta58a as offering a more compatible pattern. I've also offered to loan them a GEQ to reduce room induced feedback.
I'd like to offer the drummer and bassist a few options for individual processors (pedals ideally) that they could use to improve their vocal presence in the mix. I'm thinking they could split their mic signals, send the thru signal to the board for monitors and the second signal through a compressor and then to the board for the FOH mix.
Any ideas on specific gear or a different approach?
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Apr 19, 2010 09:29 am Tell the front guy to quit bein a dick with the classic "no I in team" speech. Then do somethin pretty much like you said when that doesn't work.
Apr 19, 2010 09:37 am In addition to the sound advise above, which I agree with completely, I'd have to ask a few questions:
"I've also offered to loan them a GEQ to reduce room induced feedback."
Ummmm, do they NOT ring out a room before a show? if not, and the "lead guy" controls the show, I'd say that is example #1 that said lead guy is completely incapable of the role of totalitarian. At the very least an "auto feedback eliminator" should be there, though nothing beats a good, human intervention during set up.
Why "ideally pedals"? I try to avoid pedals at all costs...personally I prefer well designed multi effects units just to avoid too many ins and outs of cables, as each one introduces a little noise.
Ya know, perhaps offer to run sound for one show, and just say you'll do it for free (they are friends after all) for one night under the condition lead dude has a warm cup of STFU.
You CAN NOT be on stage and in control of FOH, you simply can't.
Apr 19, 2010 12:13 pm April 5th! .................. Aw man! I was nowhere close to that! :)
I see how this really can be annoying for the other players. My suggestion would be to get ride of the lead singer. But that's just me.
The 58's are a great suggestion, and some sort of compression as well. But, I can't think of any pedal that would of be any help. And I'm with dB on this, I try and stay away from pedals.
I'm sorry that I am not much help in a situation like this. With a control freak running the show it's hard to really offer anything that will help. Because, anything that you do that will improve the others, will be defeated by the control freak.
Oh, and sorry it took me a little to get here. I was in Cape May for the spring jazz fest.
Apr 19, 2010 12:26 pm Thanks guys. Your advice is right on, but this is probably a lost cause.
1) Vocal Processors - My thought on using a pedal was to have the unit in close proximity to the performers in question, rather than in the PA rack. Now that I'm picturing their setup, I can see that a processor on top of the bass amp and another on a small stand beside the drummer would work.
Any advice on decent sounding moderately priced units?
2) Ringing out a room - In my experience, bands at the local bar level have no idea what that means or why it's important. I'm lucky to get a sound check at most gigs.
No, this guy does not ring out the room.
3) Offering free help - I've offered to do anything for these guys that I can, at no charge, including running FOH on their rig or mine. They had another guy run the board from FOH at one gig. It was a tough room and the guy did a nice job. I made sure they understood how much better they sounded. They never used him or anyone else again.
I must admit that I don't consider them all friends. I did FOH for another band that the drummer played in. We get along, but he's more interested in getting a larger cut of the cash, than he is in paying for good sound. The front guy has a lot of talent, which isn't enough to overcome the fact that he's a d**k.
The bass player, Chris, is my friend. He picked up a guitar 5 years ago to relieve job stress (he's an M.D.), discovered some natural talent, and switched to bass 2 years ago because that's where he found playing opportunites.
Chris is in it for the fun. His enjoyment comes from putting on a good show. When the FOH sound is bad, it ruins his night. He'll move on to another band sooner or later.
Below is his reply to my advice. The mention of "your music space" is an area in my basement that is set-up to accommodate a full band, all their gear, PA, monitors, lights, etc. I'm using it to give bands (and me) a place to rehearse in a "real life" environment. I use a Yamaha AW4416 recorder to capture the FOH sound and explain how to make it better.
************
Doug,
I appreciate the info, and will definitely hang onto it. I am done with trying to discuss sound with *****. He does not want the input, nor does he accept any of it, even if there is merit. I am just the bass player and do not have the vast music experience he has (sarcasm). I would love to see your music space sometime.
Thanks again.
Chris
*************
He's a good guy.
Apr 19, 2010 02:12 pm Just stopped at my local music store to buy guitar strings for my son. I asked the owner if he stocked the Beta58a. He said "no, but I just ordered one for Chris."
Maybe that should be my new strategy .... go for one small victory at time. Sooner or later, maybe the audience will start to hear the difference and avoid the musicians and venues who don't take good sound seriously.
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