Gain Staging
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Posted on Feb 05, 2010 08:27 am
mclir9
www.witchsmark.com
Member Since: Aug 13, 2006
I have always did Gain Staging for live applications, especially to save form blowing speakers and amps, but never thought to do it for recording. I just read an awesome post by pjk on gain staging from these forums and I will put it to good use www.homerecordingconnecti...10928&frm=1
My question is: Is there a way to deliver a signal for a device at the first stage without having to for instance, have the singer there to sing the loudest parts, or would this be defeating the purpose of Gain Staging?? Like something that will deliver a pink noise for instance. Common sense is telling me this wouldn't work though because the device is different than the Mic in use for the singer, but just in case I'll post it anyways.
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TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Feb 05, 2010 12:01 pm My opinion on gain staging has changed pretty radically since I added my 2 cents to that post (although PJK had the bulk of the instructional material in that post).
If you read MassiveMaster's article on gain staging for A/D conversion, it'll definitely change the way that you set your levels on your interface during tracking.
Have a read and see what you think:
www.massivemastering.com/...ding_Levels.php
That article has changed the way that many of us here at HRC (and at a couple of other forums) set levels while tracking. I have yet to do a complete complex project according to these guidelines, but I've done a few simple projects and I can already tell a difference in the dynamics of my simple mixes.
I know that Captain Tripps has had lots of luck putting these guidelines to use in some of his more complex projects. Maybe he'll chime in with his experiences.
As for how to set your levels initially, I think that the peaks are what you're after. And I think that with a vocalist, the only way you're going to be able to set your levels so that they peak somewhere between -20 and -12 (rough guidelines from MM's blog), you're just going to have to make the vocalist sing a song or two so that you can hone in on your gain settings.
It'll depend on how the vocalist manages the microphone:
- does he/she know to back off during louder parts and move in during the softer parts?
- Is he/she a "mic eater" that's always right up on the mic, or is he/she someone who knows to back off a ways?
- Is he/she a dynamic singer or a soft singer or a screamer?
All of those, plus some other factors that I probably don't know about would come into play when setting your vocalist's levels.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 05, 2010 12:54 pm Good post Tad, I had not read MM's article there yet, so good read.
I like steak! =)
I would think that every source is going to be different, so you'd WANT to see that you're in good shape. Having the singer run through a warm-up is a good time to set levels. They don't seem to mind, and it gets your 'levels set' phase out of the way.
mclir9www.witchsmark.comMember
Since: Aug 13, 2006
Feb 05, 2010 04:15 pm After reading alot more on this, is it even necessary to Gain Stage on a digital system?? I have a Firepod that runs to Sonar6PE... should I plug my Condenser Mic into the Firepod, have the singer sing and crank up the Input Gain until just clipping and then back off a bit?? Then my idea was to shoot over to the Sonar Mixer and see what the level was putting our on the In Meter and use the Mixer Gain to bring it down or up to a -18db, while the track and Main sliders are all at Unity. Is this the right idea, or does it even matter??
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 05, 2010 05:36 pm You're gain staging the analog parts first and foremost: the mic preamp gain. This part is the most important, I'd think. It comes before anything gets converted to digital.
If this is getting the level you want, then I would not worry about the digital gain, as I'd think this would be increasing the ENTIRE signal, noise and all.
So after I track, I only use mixer faders, I have my digital gains up all the way and never worry about them.
re: bringing up or down the gain in digital, i'd refer to MM's blog post about steak: after over cooking it, you can't 'uncook' the steak, only cool it down. Same w/ signal level: once you've already tracked at too hot a signal, you can't un-hot the signal after it's in the digital domain, even though it is coming in the inputs through the digi gain.
I hope that makes sense.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 05, 2010 07:46 pm i find with my pre if its even approaching too hot, especially with guitars or bass it loses its clarity more and more.
if i shoot for around -3 and 0 ish on peaks my pre likes it a whole lot better.
it depends on what youre looking for though.
Feb 05, 2010 08:22 pm -3 to -0dBVU...?
-3 to -0dBFS...?
The difference between the two is gigantic...
Assuming you mean -3 to -0dBVU - which would probably give you peaks in the -12 to -9dBFS-ish range (otherwise, you'd be overdriving your input stage rather harshly)... Just for clarification (no pun intended).
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 05, 2010 09:07 pm yeah sorry dBVU.
Feb 05, 2010 11:14 pm Nice... 8-) (Smiley with cool sunglasses on)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 06, 2010 12:02 pm B-)
I think that's the one with sunglasses . . .
P-)
Maybe that's patchy the pirate.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 06, 2010 06:46 pm ok
8-) =mad scientist
B-) = dude with sunnies
P-) = patchy pirate.
