I get worse tone when playing back DI tracks.

> > > I get worse tone when playing back DI tracks.

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Member Since: Jan 17, 2008

Ok guys. I'm stuck again. :D

So here's the deal. First off, I bought Amplitube metal.
I also have a guitar fx thing that came with my FT pro.

Anyways, I've been pretty satistied with the sounds I get out of ATM and I'm like this close (puts point of second finger about a centimeter from my thumb) to selling my amp and getting revalver mk III (amp sim...)

So, here's the problem. It sounds all great when I'm playing with the standalone version of the software (via my fast track pro DI). Now the problem is recording!

Ok, I open up my DAW, set up a track and put on Amplitube metal. I put the monitor option on and start playing. Everything sounds great. Now, I hit record and play whatever I need to. Ok, it sounded good while i was monitoring.

That's when the problem occurs. It suddenly sounds pretty horrible once I playback.

I mean, it sounds great when I'm just playing, but after recording it suddenly sounds bad.

Another forum suggested it was the mono-stereo difference or a sample rate issue, but I'm pretty sure it's neither of those as I tried everthing the people suggested.

SAMPLE:
www.supload.com/music/Sta...QY8MYEG4XM.html

Listen to the beginning when the rhythm is on it's own. It sounds very harsh, sterile, and choppy.

Any help guys?

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Member
Since: Apr 06, 2007

Aug 05, 2008 01:26 pm

Perhaps it could be a very simple thing, for example when you are playing you are listening to the instruments sound + the recorded sound, so when you finished recording you are now only listening to the recorded sound so it sounds weird. Perhaps it could also be that the plug-in works in a certain way in realtime but when it "renders" down it works in another way and sounds different, perhaps to save time rendering the track or what ever, i really dont know what else could be...

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 05, 2008 01:29 pm

I don't think it's the first example, because I usually double track (I've even tried Quadtracking) and panning hard but it still sounds bad.

As for the other suggestion, I doubt that. I mean, it's meant for recording I don't think it should sounds worse.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 05, 2008 08:20 pm

Hey SFX
i know you are using a guitar plug in and you'd think that would sound all good, from my experience a direct in with metal guitars rarely sounds how ya want it.

I think what you are getting at with the "scratchy sound" is actually the fact that there is stuff all gain and nataural resonance.
Ya get that when pluggin straight in i have found, where as if ya mic up a cab ya get the full physical sound of the speakers, which is ultimatley what the plug in is trying to capture except its not the same. Its more a trigger than a natural sound.

Having said that its only my opinion and im sure it works for alot of people.

I gotta be honest, it sounds alot better than i thought the amplitude would.
What exactly do you feel the problem is with the sound? Is it not big enough or something else?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Aug 05, 2008 09:42 pm

I don't have that problem with my PODxt or UX-2 at all. It sounds the same recorded or live.

I am wondering as well if it is not effecting the recorded track. IE: recording a much drier signal onto the track then you are hearing while monitoring.
I know some of those pluggins work that way.

I know I had an old version of Amplitube and it had to be applied to the track as pluggin to sound good. But it still didn't compare to my Line 6 gear.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Aug 06, 2008 02:52 am

I would say the most likely problem is that when your monitoring you are probably listening at a higher volume to the guitar, and it is likely panned center or is stereo (any effects such as chorus/delays/reverb/flange etc., are usually stereo in Amplitube/GR presets) If you only record a mono track you lose the effects for the most part. Once you adjust volume levels and pan for a mix it's going to sound different as well and usually not for the better unless you really know what your doing mixing to bring the guitars out, whether you use hardware, or software sim's or a mic (I know I struggle alot with that :)

Excellent results can be obtained with any of it, I've heard plenty of great sounding demo's with Amplitube, GR3, Revalver, Pod's, Boss GTx's, and mic's so it can be done, it just takes alot of trial and error and practice to get the sound your looking for.

As for what you have right now, doesn't sound that bad to me. ;)

Dan


Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 06, 2008 05:17 pm

Actually, It doesn't only sound bad for metal. It sounds bad for about everything else (except cleans!)

Btw, I'm thinking it could be that the signal is more dry as mentioned above. Hmm, is there a way to fix that?

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005

Aug 06, 2008 05:29 pm

Have you tried listening to the raw wav file? Does it sound the same? Maybe something is being added during playback. I would think that if it sounds good during monitoring then it should sound good as a wav. Try playing it in WMP instead of your DAW

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 06, 2008 07:23 pm

i dont know anything about the amplitude, but could you run "a tad only" of overdrive (more for punch)in front before you go to the amplitude? kinda like a pre? I dunno if that's viable, i know pretty much squat about it.

I fyou could i would say that it may work.

also, have you tired compressing your guitar after you've recorded it? That may help with the punch also. Though if ya need more rounded edge, more power is needed i would suggest.

Get yerself a mic and thrash ya amp a bit with it in front of the grill If ya have no luck wid ya plug in.
I've often wondered about multi tracking using something like the amplitude and then micing the cabinet.

Im thinking it would sound really cool blending the crisp feel and the dirty stinky saturated cab sound together.

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 08, 2008 11:09 am

Well, the Overdrive doesn't seem to help. (infact, my SD-1 just colors the tone and adds a little more distortion, which I can do via plug-ins and make it sound better anyways.)

As for compression, I always use compression but I've noticed using a fairly low Threshold (like -20dB) then EQ'ing and boosting the signal a tiny bit more seems to help. But then it not that loud and some of distortion seems to be gone.

Could it be that when I'm playing back the guitar track is just so loud for my cheapo 2.1 logitech speakers that it sounds bad?

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 08, 2008 07:25 pm

its possible, but i dont think so.

it is possible your volume and/or gain settings need tweaking?

If your recording levels werent that good, then you would still hear it sounding great through direct monitoring, but then after recording, if those levels werent right to start with, then the guitar would sound the way you have that levels currently set at. Eg, lack of gain or scratchy sounding.
Hell i've done it, but usually i have my level a bit loud and it peaks, but you dont hear it at the time, coz its direct monitring.
like i said, in this respect though, im not learned with this sorta plug in.

Being a DI it very well could be the sample rate thing you mentioned previous. maybe double check that too, or even play with it a bit see what happens.
keep chippin away at it, when you think of it, if it sounds good thru direct mon. then its definatley possible to get it recorded like that. just gotta figure out what it is.

If ya keep posting here it'll get figured out.


Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 09, 2008 01:56 pm

Hmm, I seem to be getting a bit closer. Ok, my sample rate is 48k (the FTP can go up to 98k, but for output reasons, I'm stuck with 48k) but I mean if it sounds good monitoring, I doubt it's the input quality that's the problem right? As for cubase, the sample rate is 48k in the settings and the bit depth is either 16 or 24 (pretty sure its 24).

As for levels, here's what they seem like (maybe you guys can suggest something).

My guitar volume is up all the way, as is tone (which seems more like a volume since when it's all the way down, nothing comes out of the guitar). On the FTP, the gain is a 1/4 way up (because of the higher input of my bridge pickup) and the clipping indicator isn't blinking so that should be fine.
In cubase, it's set so that the levels are generally almost at the red area but not yet. It's the same level on the channel mixer when recording and monitorting(approx.) and in amplitube metal the input is pretty low for some reason but the output is either near red or in the red (ofcourse I tried bringing it down but it didn't change much).

By the way, the high-gain stuff seems to be getting better, but don't even bother about the medium - gain tones!

EDIT: If there's anyone that could do a favor for me: if I someone could upload a DI dry track of your guitar like 10 seconds, and I'd try to put effects on THAT and see if I still get the same result? In that case, maybe me guitar just sucks? (Godin freeway classic, stock pickups) But again I don't think so since it sounds good monitorting.

EDIT 2: OH! I just remembered, it seems to sound particularly bad during palm mutes.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Aug 09, 2008 03:29 pm

You should try to get the input to Amplitube up to at least mid-way, lowering the output of Amplitube if neccessary.

Dan

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 09, 2008 06:36 pm

ok, i will upload a dry track of my guitar see if you can muck with it.

it really does sound to me like a level thing.
When you say it sounds like turd during mutes, do you mean it loses or lacks gain or do you think its peaking out?

if you can, record "another" track and get it to sound extra crappy and post it so we can listen.
i will chuck on some of my dry guitar shorlty.
I was also thinking it could be the pickups, but hey you'll find out soon i guess. They dont have a batteries do they??
Im using EMG 81's so ya not gonna get much more intensity than that.
Check me profile under "dry guitar"

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 09, 2008 09:05 pm

@ olddog, I'll try that.
@ deon:
When I palm, it seems to loose gain.

I'll record another track later. Nope, no batteries - it's the stock Godin pickups (neck Humbucker, middle single-coin, bridge Hbucker)




http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 10, 2008 12:18 am

ok i put a little something in profile.
Its straight tru a little practice amp but it should be cool for what you want.

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 10, 2008 11:04 am

Hmm, getting similar results (I guess it's a bit better, but I don't know.)

Ok ok - I figured out another clue. A lot of the harshness is coming from around the 5k frequencies. I tried dropping them there with different angles, but then my guitar would sound too low and muffled up.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 10, 2008 10:08 pm

what happens when you multi track ya guitars with say 4 layers and pan 2 at 80 and 2 at 30 left and right.

Im thinking then it will sound alot better for sure.
Give it a shot.

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 11, 2008 12:05 pm

Hmmm, interesting. You see, what I usually do with Quad-tracks is 2 trakcs 80% L/R and the other 2 100% L/R.

I'll give it a try.

Thanks for all the help so far.


Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 19, 2008 08:54 pm

Well, Quad-tracking still helps, but no matter what I try my guitar track still sounds all harsh with WAY too much treble. No matter how much I EQ it sounds bad (lower the treble and it sounds too muddy and low).

Well guys, I officially give up with guitar recording =D

Thanks for all the help so far

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 22, 2008 07:18 am

try miking up your amp with a decent mic for guitar recording. reckon its the best way.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Aug 22, 2008 08:02 am

hey just wanted to mention i've had this exact same problem with any VST amp module i've ever toyed with. keep trying, there has to a solution. i'm intensely curious about this, as i would buy guitar rig or something if i could figure out the problem.

noize, the pod doesn't have these probs--this is something about the plugins. and honestly it's probably something the user is inadvertently doing.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Aug 22, 2008 08:18 pm

Ya, I guess that could be were the difference lies.

But I do agree that you need to keep trying and tweaking. They would not be selling that many of the things if they didn't work.

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 24, 2008 01:36 pm

Yea obviously. I know good sound is possible, but I just can't get it.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Aug 24, 2008 04:39 pm

I am guessing that it very well could just be something simple that is not being adjusted properly.

Not being a user of that program I honestly can't say. But I do know that factory preses in those programs are set up for the perfect situation and don't always sound good. I am pretty sure you are not just doing that. But maybe pick one that sounds pretty fair and work from there to find a sound that is usable for you.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Aug 25, 2008 04:23 am

when it comes to distorted guitar, it never sounds that good till you mix it with the rest of the band, or at least till you fatten it up a bit with a few effects like stereo delay, reverb and compression.

Im working on a metallica cover atm and man i tried to get the guitars as good as possible before recording, but still, it sounds pretty pus till you mix it in with the bass and drums and what not.

its a funny thing the ol distorted guitar, it takes work, hell i'll be the first to admit mine isnt how i would like it to be. just gotta work with what you got(gear wise). If you can make pus sound good then you can make anything sound good.

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Aug 26, 2008 03:52 pm

Yeah, haha, Deon, your right. Adding it to the mix helps, but it STILL sounds kinda sh*t.

I'm like 99% sure Noize is right, its something stupid simple that I adjusted wrong... Is there anybody around here that's good with these kinds of plug-ins?

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Aug 27, 2008 03:08 am

I have Guitar Rig 3 and manage to pretty much get the sounds I want out of it, though I still don't think it sounds as good as my GT6, but I haven't been working with it as long either. Can't say I've really tried to get the metal sound I think your trying to get though, so I don't how much luck I'd have getting anything better or tips on the getting the sound.

Dan

Member
Since: Jan 17, 2008

Sep 16, 2008 09:34 pm

EDIT: A few more thoughts to this dead topic... Haha

Ok 1 thing, should I use Guitar rig/ whatever amp modeling software I use as pre or post fx?

Also, it's not only metal it's any distorted sounds. (Cleans sound great). Once I pick up that distorted amp model, or crank up the gain, it sounds baaad. Using a shelving EQ and boosting the low half of the EQ a lot, and shelving the high ends down, and boosting the mids with a wide Q helps, but I't just sounds so... ew... I really don't know what to do. I'm considering investing in a POD.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Sep 17, 2008 07:11 pm

Boosting the mids with heavy gain or distortion will only create more noise. If I crank up the gain or use distortion I always scoop a bit of mid out. Otherwise, yep it will sound like crap.

Cranking too much EQ in any band will cause a much different sound in the digital realm.

> > > I get worse tone when playing back DI tracks.

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