Recording Setup

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Member Since: Feb 17, 2003

Hey all...I'm quite new to recording and am looking to make a small studio jsut for my personal use and my band's use. I want to be able to make semi-professional sounding recordings and want to do it all through my computer.

I already have a computer-
Athlon 1 GHz
256 MB DDR RAM
30 and 40 GB 7200 RPM HDs
CD Burner

I need a good sound card (I was looking at the M-audio delta 1010 card or the digi001) and was wondering wut software i should use for the recording editing and mastering as well as recommendations on any other "gear" i would need, but mostly opinions on what card/software I should get.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

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Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 10:36 am

M-Audio works great with almost any software. Generally it is said that Sonar from Cakewalk is the easiest to learn and use, and judging by the current project I am involved in that uses Sonar, I would have to say it is pretty intuitive.

There is a thread stuck at the top of these forums in which the last post is a huge list of gear we commonly recommend plus links to their pages on Musician's Friend.

Welcome to the community. You are magic member number 500!

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 11:20 am

An additional question..well two:

First, what size card do i need to record a drum set (4 or 5 mics), 1 or 2 guitars and bass at the same time?..Is the Delta 1010 the right size for this?....that is the card i was lookin at to purchase...looks like a good one to me

And second, with this would i need a patch bay or outboard mixer or something else to mix the imputs? and if on an outboard mixer, this might be a dumb question..i dunno, but wut do the busses do and are more better?


thanks again,

Scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 11:30 am

No, it's not dumb, actually, it's a quite common question. Yes, you need preamps of some sort, be they in a mixer or otherwise. As far as recording, you need as many ins as track you want to record. If you want to record two guitars and a bass you need three ins for three different tracks. If you want to record a drums kit with 5 mics you need five ins, however, if you want to mix the drums down to a stereo image (2 tracks) then you only need two ins.

if you want to record 2 guitars, a bass and a drum set with 5 mics and keep each mic on it's own track then you need 8 ins, which is the amount of analog ins that the Delta 1010 has.

It's all about how you want to record.

The 1010 would be a good choice, M-Audio makes great stuff. I have heard of fewer people having problems with M-Audio stuff than just about any other card commonly used in home studios.

FYI, if you are going to buy online, and you buy through this link:

service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear

You help support this community with meager commission money. If you do, thanks.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 11:48 am

I dunno if that answered my question or not...are the pres the busses?....and are there pres in the delta 1010

thanks

scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 11:56 am

No, I don't believe the Delta 1010 has any pres in it. And yes, it did answer your question, it just may not make sense to you at the moment, or, I misunderstood your question.

Bottom line is, the 1010 is a good bet for what you are trying to do.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 12:14 pm

Ok thanks....if it doesnt have pres....wut kind of pres should i get?

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 12:19 pm

Most of us around here use a mixer for pres. Usually Behringer...sometimes some instruments need others, it really depends on your style and personal preferences.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 12:22 pm

So wut i would do would be to take my mics into the mixer for the pres...and then use the outputs and go in to the delta 1010...right?

If this is the case....wut mixer should i get...ive heard a lot about mackies and behringers....wut would give me the most band for the buck?

thanks

scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 12:27 pm

Without a single doubt in my mind I say Behringer gives the most bang for the buck. Many claim mackie is worlds better, truth told, they have there merits, but most people can't even tell the difference. It's barely audible in most cases. Most everyone here uses Behringer. They are half the price of a Mackie too.

And yes, you would run the mics into the board for the pres, and possibly the aux loops, the EQ, sub mixing and other things at time, mixers have dozens of uses besides pres.

The trick is that you need one with a lot of outs. I would say off the top of my head something like service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear or better yet, if ya REALLY have money waiting to be spent service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear a couple members here have that board...WooHoo!

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 12:47 pm

are there any smaller boards out there that are realatively inexpensive and still have enough sends....6-8 or so?

thanks

scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 12:53 pm

not that I am aware of, only ones that have direct sends on each channels, I can't give any specific models off the top of my head, but if I think of any I will post it. You can go to Musician's Friend and look around too...

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 12:57 pm

Will the item description say if it has direct sends?...And could i just get a seperate mic-preamp instead of a mixer?

thanks

scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 01:20 pm

Ya, a preamp for each microphone...which would (or could) cost about as much as a big mixer anyway.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 02:01 pm

Well...my goal was to have a few different tracks for just the drums...but I dont think thats gonna work.

Is there a smaller mixer that would work if i only wanted/needed 4 at the most outputs...and if there is something like that...is there a smaller sound card that i could get that would still accomidate 4 direct inputs

thanks

scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 02:03 pm

Yes, look in our recommended gear thread for the Delta 44 and and there are quite a few good mixers with four out busses...

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 02:33 pm

so if i were to get a delta 44 and a behringer mixer with 4 aux sends that will do the trick?

wut software options do i have using this hardware for purposes of recording, editing, and mastering?

thanks

scooter

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 02:50 pm

No, it won't do the trick for what you originally came in here for but it will for your scaled down version that you came to a couple posts ago...as far as software, any multitracking software will work. There is plenty of different ones, and whichever one you choose somebody here probably uses it.

There are several threads from people asking everyone what they use, look for one and read it to get the scoop on different applications and their strengths and weaknesses and picks what suits you best.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 17, 2003 10:19 pm

I was looking at the alesis mixers and this one struck my attention--

www.alesis.com/products/studio24/

It says in the description:

"Also, it provides eight individual XLR inputs, each with its own switchable direct output, making the Studio 24 perfect for applications that require you to route multiple audio sources simultaneously."

Does this mean that I will be able to take my XLR inputs and directly output them into the Delta 1010 card?

thanks

scooter

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Feb 17, 2003 10:47 pm

Yup, indeed it does. I owned a previous version of that same mixer. Noizey thing, but they all were back then.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Feb 18, 2003 12:29 am

Behringer MX9000 mixer has 24 direct outs, There is another Behringer that has 24 as well www.behringer.net. And yes the Alesis studio 24 and 32 have direct outs. Some of the Mackies have pretty good bussing options which offer a good number of individual outputs as well. It really comes down to doing a lot of research and shopping unfortunately, or if you like shoping, fortunately!

As far as software goes there is a ton of it out there. Pretty much all competative. Comes down to what is intuitive for you. A few manufactures like steinberg www.steinberg.net offer free trial software downloads. Give them a shot and see if they make sense to you. You will be looking for multitracking software.

Good luck!

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 18, 2003 08:03 am

I've heard a good amount about the mackie and behringer mixers, but not a whole lot about Alesis mixers. Are the good? How are the Preamps on them?

thanks

scooter

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 18, 2003 08:22 am

Well, I was doing a bit more reading and looking around and found the Aardvark Q10. It's a bit more expensive but costs less than the delta 1010 and mixer with directs ouputs used. It says in its description that it has 8 Mic preamps. Would this take care of the mixer's preamps and the need for a mixer altogether?

thanks

scooter

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Feb 18, 2003 08:38 am

Check out the Behringer UB 2442FX-Pro service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear . It's got an output for each channel as well as 4 subgroups and 4 aux busses. It's also got built in effects, ten mic. input channels, and 2 or 3 stereo channels. It's only about $300-$350. Looks like a good deal to me.

About your first question though, Yes, if you buy the Aardvark Q10 then you don't need to buy an external mixer. I kind of wish I had bought one instead of my delta 44, but I didn't have enough money and I already had a mixer. Then again, I like buying stuff and hooking different pieces of equipment together, so I'm kind of glad I have both a mixer and a soundcard seperate :-) The Q10 is a great deal and I love the options it has. I've never used one, but I've heard great things about them. If you buy one, it will also eliminate the need for buying a bunch of patch cables that really adds up in the long run and can introduce noise into your signal. If you have the money, I would say go for the Q10. If you want to use a mixer later on then you can just turn down the pre amps on the Q10 and use the ones on the mixer or vice versa. Hope that helps.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 18, 2003 08:56 am

Thanks a lot. I guess the first time I looked at that mixer i skipped right over the part that said direct outs. Am i really going to notice a difference in sound quality between the delta 1010 and aardvark q10?

thanks a bunch

scooter

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Feb 18, 2003 09:21 am

Hmmm... I don't really know if you would notice a difference, but I doubt it. I've never been able to compare the two, but I imagine the analog to digital conversion is about the same quality on both units.

Member
Since: Feb 17, 2003

Feb 18, 2003 09:30 am

Ok thanks. I think im gonna go for the Eurorack UB2442FX-PRO Mixer with the direct outs and the delta 1010 card...once i have that i think ill sort through the mess that is software.

Also, I've read the other posts and still dont understand what a patch bay is. Im not too hardware inclined. Is it just so that all your gear doesnt have to be unplugged every time u change something? Do you just rerout the inputs?
Oh, and for monitors i already have a stereo amp for speakers, do i need to buy special monitors or can i just buy some decent quality speakers.

thanks

scooter

Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002

Feb 18, 2003 12:36 pm

A patch bay is basically a small bit of hardware that allows you to have all your inputs and outputs from the various devices in your studio (keyboards, rack synths, effects units, compressors, soundcard inputs and outputs, etc, etc) to the same place. These can then be routed using small "patch chords" so that the signal goes wherever you want it to.

They're not that usefull in a small setup (say for example, you have 2 keyboards, a mixing desk, a reverb unit and a computer) - but when you start getting lots of outboard gear, it becomes less and less practicle to unplug calbes each time you want to change the configuration of something - this is where the patchbay is a real god-send!

As for your monitoring question, you do not need dedicated studio monitors to start with - as long as you have a decent quality hi-fi amp and good quality speakers (that you know well) you will be fine. As and when you can afford them, studio monitors are a good idea - but I'm sure there is plenty more stuff that you will want to spend your money on before those :)

jues.

a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member
Since: Oct 09, 2002

Feb 18, 2003 12:33 pm

Sounds like a good choice to me. I'm not really sure what a patch bay is used for exactly, but it just keeps things organized and makes hooking up different pieces of equipment easier if you have to rerout cords a lot. Unless you have a lot equipment, I don't think you really need one. I've gotten by fine without one. Studio monitors are a big plus for when your mixing and mastering, so I would definately recommend getting a pair. If you can't, then I suppose you could just use some stereo speakers or nice computer speakers in the meantime. Just make sure you listen to your mixes in a lot of different players before you call it done. I would recommend a pair of M-Audio SP-5B monitors if your on a budget (They don't require a separate amp). Another thing you're going to want to look into is an outboard compressor/gate. I recommend the Behringer ones because they're cheap. You can get a Composer Pro for about $100. This is the only outboard effect you really need, because all the others can be simulated in computer plug-ins. A compressor can help you get the most out of the signal going to your computer before it gets there. It's a great plus on vocals.

Looks like Jues beat me to it...

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