Nov 05, 2007 02:50 pm Wow, sounds great. Great pipes on that gal! Wouldn't know what to suggest as IMO any comments would simply be subjective. Well done!
Rosa Lynn
Posted on Nov 05, 2007 11:57 am
DungBeatle
Time Waster
Member Since: Jan 12, 2006
A new song, I only write about one a month anymore... :/ This is a rough, quickly mixed last night so we could listen. Much work left to do, so let me have it... No pats on the back please, I'd like this to be the best I can make it. The string parts sound sucky so I'm going to have to get my wife to cut loose with some $ for Giga-something-or-other... :)
Rosa Lynn
Copyright © George, Dobbins
Lyrics by Robert George
Music by Robert Dobbins
Vocals by Aarika Ravelle
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Nov 05, 2007 02:50 pm Wow, sounds great. Great pipes on that gal! Wouldn't know what to suggest as IMO any comments would simply be subjective. Well done!
Nov 05, 2007 03:31 pm DungB, sounds pretty nice...
I would say piano is too up front compared to the vocals (maybe just volume would cure it, maybe some reverb...?). But piano sounds nice and full.
Have you added a de-esser to the vocals. It's not bad, but did notice the essses here and there kinda slithering through.
If possible, i might ease up on the reverb on the snare. Drums brass sounds nice though. I also like the toms.
Hope that gives you something to start with. Overall, this sounds pretty good though. You're getting a pat on the back whether you like it or not.
Nov 05, 2007 03:52 pm Thanks guys. Nothing but some reverb and a little touchup on the wav files to remove any coughing and clearing of throat. It's pretty rough, but I like to wait before I do too much and listen to the original. The vocal is pieced together from 5 takes. Most of it is out of two complete takes. I'll try to back off the piano and the reverb on the snare. No de-essing yet, I might just go fix those places manually. There's a little click in her throat in the 1st verse I need to take out.. Thanks again! I'll wait until I get more feedback before I start messing with it...
Nov 05, 2007 06:50 pm Dung, I would like to take a day and listen to it a few times. I may have some ideas to share with you on this one. You know how I feel about piano and strings together, that is one of my favorite combo's. Add into that the fact that your daughter's voice on this is absolutely fantastic. The power that girl puts out vocally is amazing.
You can tell her that performance gave me goose bumps on both listens tonight.
But I want to listen a couple more times before I make any comments.
But this is a fantastic piece and will be killer when you get it fully mixed.
Nov 05, 2007 07:11 pm That's great Noize, take your time. That's what I'm doing. I'm going to start re-listening to the raw takes tonight, one by one. We will see if I change the selections. Believe me, they are all GREAT and it's really hard to choose! She's just in the middle of quitting SMOKING! The good feedback will help give her strength... She will, as I do, appreciate the kind words! Thanks much...
BTW this was done in Sony Vegas Pro 8!
Nov 05, 2007 07:50 pm And I forgot to mention. I have been working on some patches with Native Instruments Kontakt 3. It is supposed to be able to import my old school SampleCell instrument files. But digging into it for a review I am having trouble with that part. But the flip side made me start looking into creating with what was onboard to start with. And lo and behold they have some killer strings on there. Probably as good as the ones in Dimension Pro. And the libraries that are out there for Kontakt are absolutely killer. And if I'm not mistaken it is a bit lower priced then GigaStudio.
But there is a full on orchestra in there as well as some other killer normal and not so normal sounds. I had some older Zero-G libraries that it imported no problem so I am no looking at actually spending some set aside cash on a couple of other libraries for Kontakt. That is something you might want to look into as well.
I'll try and do some simple string part to your tune here and post up the strings solo for you to hear in the next day or two.
And Sony Vegas, I started using that last year. The lighter Platinum version for doing our scout movie. It is making me want to pop for the bigger version if I get into any more video stuff I might.
But Sonar has an excelant video pane so I probably don't really need anything but the lighter version.
Nov 05, 2007 08:13 pm Wow! Thanks Noize. I look forward to it. If you want me to put up a more accurate file, let me know, and I can put one up without strings if you'd like. Take me just a few minutes...
I did a video job for someone last year and I ended up with Vegas 6 for nothing. So I upgraded for a couple hundred when 8 came out. It was just lucky... It's a much better audio studio now, but I like Samplitude for its user interface. But for video editing, effects, big projects, Vegas is a honey... Very fast!
Sonar is in my future...
Nov 05, 2007 08:24 pm Thanx Dung, but I can work around what is there. I get a link when I get the email notification for the post so I can grab it that way. But it will do just as is.
I'll just plod out a few simple bits to let you see what they sound like. I was kind of surprised at them being as good as they were. I guess I should not have been since the other Native Instruments stuff I have is killer. I just wish I could get it to import my SampleCell instruments though. I have all the original samples and velocity layers, but it would take me month's to rebuild that library into Kontakt format from scratch. So I would rather it import them like it says it can. I'm sure tech support will sort it out eventually.
But it does import almost every other sampler library out there, including Kursweil stuff.
Nov 05, 2007 08:33 pm Thanks, I look forward to hearing it. BTW, I finally built a new computer, 3.2GHz dual core, PIV, 4GHz ram, M-Audio 2496 card (I thought it would be a cheap card, but it's good!), and I picked up BFD, that's the drums on this recording. Did they sound OK? I know I put a pretty deep reverb on the snare... All is going thru RME AD/DA and an Allen & Heath WZ20s... I need to get a cleaner mixer...
Nov 05, 2007 08:49 pm I think the drums sound just fine. A little lighter or smaller reverb on the snare and it will be good. The 2496 is a killer card for sure. It uses the same converters as the Delta series cards so it is a good card. Tuna uses one in his machine which he got from dB. AS for the Allen and Heath. That is a good desk. I think they have a good sound personally.
Nice PC by the way. I'm just getting ready to make the decision of either going with an AMD dual or possibly waiting for the second gen quad from AMD.
Nov 05, 2007 09:31 pm Next system has to be x64 for me. This main board would do it, but not all my other stuff... I have a dual/dual core in my sights... Then Sonar and everything 64 bit... it goes slowly for me... Too much $$$
Nov 05, 2007 09:34 pm Ya, if I totaled up every penny over the years I think I would strangle myself. But I figure I get my money back pretty swiftly on most of the investments in here.
Nov 05, 2007 09:40 pm Oh yeah, I make no money at this, it's a hobby for me and support for my daughter. All money goes out... :) I like good stuff though, if I can have it or make it, even if it's last year's good stuff! Next thing is something like Giga or some other sampler and great strings. The P80 does the piano, BFD the drums, Kurzweil handles the bass and guitar Ok, and I used to think the strings. But they're just not up to it anymore. Gotta move on to the modern sampler...
Nov 05, 2007 09:51 pm Ya, I don't know why but I'm getting the feeling that Kontakt is going to be something I will keep adding to. Seeing as it can import so many different instrument files from all the other samplers, both software and hardware I think I would be a fool not to use it more. Zero-G has a huge library that they have out for past customer's that I am really thinking about investing in that is made for Kontakt. And the fact that I can create instruments in another synth and then dump them as a base to start from into Kontakt makes it even more appealing.
Nov 05, 2007 10:37 pm I've been looking at:
www.philharmonik.com/
Philharmonic Miroslav Orchestration and choir workstation, 7 GB samples, 1300 sounds 16-part multi-timbral... based on SampleTank... Quite a bit cheaper than Giga + Miroslav as I recall..
I see Kontakt 2 is only $299. and 3 is $399... Pretty cheap.
Nov 06, 2007 12:53 am philharmonik.com is great, but if you want a free workaround you can get DSK Strings. www.DSKmusic.com
You can layer it and run a boat load of the VSTi instance with very little CPU usage, and it sounds pretty close to real. It takes a little modal theory knowledge to layer effectively, but works like a charm.
If you feel like tossing some cash up for VSTi's though, I suggest cakewalk Dimension. The song on my profile, which is a rough in the worst way, was made using dimension for everything other then the piano. Amazing program, and goes for 249$
I agree with Coolo, the piano is a bit forthright in comparison; the vocalist has a powerful voice, yet somehow eludes me behind the piano. Very well done though, you have my 4 stars of five.
Nov 06, 2007 09:57 am Thanks for the generous feedback Keith. I'll be remixing either tomorrow or the next and I'll try to tone that piano down and try a bit more reverb or deepen the reverb, lots to think about! I'll check out DSK strings, thanks for the info! Enjoyed your tune too, pretty good sound for a rough mix, and strings are better than what I have now. Thanks again!
Nov 06, 2007 03:47 pm While I do love the strings in Dimension Pro I have to say the Kontakt is winning me over. Dimension Pro is my favorite and most used sampler at the moment, but I think Kontakt is going to be used here mainly for the fact it can import a lot of different instrument and sample files.
I have a huge library for Sample Cell and am bummed that I cannot use it at the moment. It would require running a PC with win 98 and an ISA slot to use it. That or spending 300 to 500 dollars on a sample converter. I am hoping NI can sort it out so I can import them in Kontakt.
Nov 06, 2007 03:51 pm SampleTank says it reads SampleCell files... Tried it?
www.sampletank.com/Main.html?MainPage.php
I'm going to go check out Dimension Pro on the web right now...
Nov 06, 2007 04:05 pm BTW here's a link to some samples of Miroslav Philharmonik:
www.philharmonik.com/Main.html?prod_MP
Nov 06, 2007 06:27 pm Ya, I tried SampleTank and it was just that, a tank. It was a rather sluggish program to get to do what I wanted and it was an amazing CPU hog. Even more so then any of the NI synths or even Rapture or Dimension Pro. Although Dimension Pro and Rapture can be tamed SampleTank could not.
I did however like a few bits of it. I just found that with Dimension Pro and the fact it loads 4 different elements, and not with Kontakt which can load up to 16 per page. There are 4 pages by the way which can give me 64 channels to mix out of if I so desire.
Um, OK so I just slipped over to look at the Philharmonik and ran into the moog thing as well. Interesting stuff. The Philharmonik sound really good. Much better then what the original sampleTank engine sounded like before. That would not be a bad choice either. A little pricey but....
Nov 07, 2007 07:04 am lol.. Yeah, I'm looking at Giga too.. All kinda pricey. Giga has a pretty good rep on orchestral samples. It's all just SO expensive..
Nov 07, 2007 06:25 pm Ya, Kontakt is not cheap by any means, but of the bigger samplers it is probably one of the lower priced bits of software. Not including Dimension Pro which is a bit cheaper. But the funny thing is they all do something a little different from the other. So for me its kind of a growing thing. But I think now with Kontakt I will be set pretty well for samplers and not really need to add anything else. East/West and Zero-G seem to have pretty complete libraries to work in Kontakt so I am thinking this will be the end all for me on the sampler front for now.
Nov 08, 2007 10:13 am I put up a wnd mix I made last night. A little de-essing, some EQ-ing, fixed a couple pops, moved the piano back, smoothed the vocal out by lowering the limiting and compression. Thanks for all the great help, guys!
Nov 08, 2007 07:34 pm Ya, her voice is sitting much better now and smoother as you put it. The piano has less attack no being set back. I think that may have been what was making it sound so present. I know here her voice was sitting well over the piano and the strings were hard to hear. They are a bit more audible now. I am sure you have them sitting back a bit though on purpose.
One idea is to have them swell and retreat during open parts or along with the power of your daughters voice. I use that method with great success when I have a big voice in a mix like that. Or they need to be subdued for the majority of the mix, but you want people to know they are there.
I can give you a better explanation if you would like.
I have not had a chance to work out any string part on that first mix yet for you to hear. Hopefully on Sunday I can take a bit of time to try them so you can hear what the Kontakt strings sound like.
Nov 08, 2007 08:15 pm Thanks Noize, I understand what you're saying. I've already put in some volume controls across the violins, but only at the very end where they weren't sitting well. I go over it again just for the learning. Take your time on the strings yourself. No rush at all... Thanks!
Nov 17, 2007 07:54 pm Listening to the 2nd mix and wow, this really sounds great DungBeatle. I really can't offer any suggestions that would make it better other than what Noize has suggested doing with the strings. The singing is a amazing very strong, she has a great voice!
Dan
Nov 18, 2007 05:07 pm This is aq sample for Dungbeatle using nothing but Kontakt for entire mix. Only running it with a single stereo output going through a buss in Sonar with VC63 on it for final mix.
I did not take any time to really work out any articulation on the instruments. It is mainy for dung to hear the strings in Kontakt, or anything else he hears in there. You will all know what it is when yo hear it. Kinda cheesy and quickly put together. If you want it for download I'll put it in my profile as well. It might sound better coming out of another player then just the play button.
Anyway, here it is.
www.pigpenstudio.com/file...ountainKing.mp3
Again, this is just a quick toss out with no real work done to it to refine it. And it is done in a single instance of Kontakt 3.
Nov 19, 2007 08:36 am That sure sounds better than anything the Kurzweil can do. Very nice... Did you drive Kontakt as a midi device or use it as VST instrument within Sonar? Nice orchestral sounds, very real sounding to me. What's the latency of Kontakt?
Nov 19, 2007 10:15 am Hey Dan! Thanks for the feedback! My daughter will appreciate your kind words too!
Nov 19, 2007 04:24 pm Dung, I used it as a VSTi in Sonar. Like I said, I simply loaded everything into one instance of Kontakt and used only one pair of stereo outs from Kontakt. It can actually do 16 if need be. I may take that and load it up with the 16 so I can mix it a little better so you can get a bigger picture.
Like I said as well, I will try and find something to just do the strings with so you can get a better picture.
Latency, in Sonar is about 0.3ms.
Nov 19, 2007 06:45 pm And a side note, that is a bit of a jumbled piece of work. It is an excerpt from a piece we did years ago for guitar as the main instrument and I just quickly filled in the guitar parts with various horns and such.
Nov 20, 2007 10:19 am Still sounds great to me! That's some low latency too. I'm just gonna have to cut loose with the $ but it's just not gonna happen anytime soon... :( Might go get a part-time job...
Nov 20, 2007 08:31 pm Funny enough, I worked PT for my X bro in law years ago delivering Pizza's to help him get his stores started. And every penny went into the studio. I didn't plan it that way, it just kind of happened.
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