digital mixer question
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Posted on Jan 30, 2003 01:24 am
stupe
Member Since: Apr 03, 2002
hi guys. probably a stupid question, but i have very little knowledge with digital mixers. i was just wondering, with digital mixers how do they record? do they have the ability to record by themselves standalone (like with a built in hd) or do you have to connect the adat cards to them to record to adat tapes. because ive noticed they all have a record button on them so it makes me think they can record stand alone. or do digital mixers just act the same as analog mixers (where you have to plug them into a recorder or some sort) but just with an lcd screen and some lights?
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Jan 30, 2003 05:20 am I am sure the features and functions vary from mixer to mixer, but unless it is specifically stated I would doubt many of them have any recording mechanism in them. The coolest thing I see in digital mixers is programmable automation and smaller design.
I suspect the ones with the record button can sync up with a hard disk recorder or PC and just have the transport buttons on the mixer work with the that unit.
I have minimal experience with digital mixers so any or all of the above may be wrong...I have never really had a need to shop for those...
Jan 30, 2003 11:52 am stupe, i think you may be confusing digital mixers with digital multitrack recorders, which usually have mixers built right in. but i could be terribly wrong beings that i dont' use either device.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Jan 30, 2003 01:37 pm jamie, i think you are right. because i always see those little boss or fostex things that have like 8 channels on them and they can record and i think those are DIGITAL MIXERS. but the bigger ones like the YAMAHA O2R, TASCAM DM24, RAMSA DA7 with 32 channels and programmable automation they all have this red record button on it so i think that they are just BIGGER Ones of those small portable multitrack recorders. but i think you are right DB because they never say anywhere that they have the ability to record and i just read right now a recommendation deal from TASCAM To buy an ALESIS HD24 with the digital mixer and get a discount. this is the mixer i am interested in.
built in automation, comp, eq, gate, antares reverb and mic modeler on each channel.
i was wondering because right now, all i use for recording is my DIRECT OUTS. do inserts work the same as direct outs if you want to separate each track you want to record?
Jan 30, 2003 01:57 pm A good friend of mine has a DA7 and quite honestly, I think he may have wasted a lot of money on it. He's using a DAW to record, so the DA7 is serving no greater purpose for him than the far less expensive mixers most people on this site are using. I think generally, mixers like the DA7 are used in conjunction with hard-disk recorders, ADAT machins or some other recording device. Then the full beneits of the built-in automation, A/D converters, etc. can be utilized. For those of us using DAWs, we get the automation from the software and our A/D conversion from our sound cards. Hence, these very pricey digital mixers are pretty much unnecessary for us.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Jan 30, 2003 03:41 pm i thought so. thanks for clearing that up ninja. also another point i'd like to add about the wonders of PC recording is that you can actually see the waveform blocks.
Jan 30, 2003 05:06 pm No worries. It's nice to actually have an answer to a slightly technical question around here. Sometimes I feel like I'm just hanging around with the cool kids hoping that they'll eventually let me play with them!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 30, 2003 08:44 pm You have had some great input, so don't ever think you are just hangin around. We all learn new stuff everyday. One of our 6 figure enginer's at my work just learned what happen's when you forget to hook the return line back to tank on a hydraulic pump system that is set to push 35 gallon's per minute at 5000 PSI. Thing's explode and he decided he didn't like taking a shower in 110 degree oil. He also didn't like cleaning up 40 gallon's of hydraulic fluid from the ceiling and the wall's and the floor, and pretty much everywhere else within a 60 foot circle.
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Jan 30, 2003 09:25 pm Messy :D
Just to answer a question that was raised by Stupe - yes, insert points CAN be used as direct outs for each channel. An insert point is a SEND and RETURN on a single TRS jack - this means that the TIP is the jack is the send and the RING is the return (God I hope I got that the right way round!!!!). The Insert Points are located just after the gain stage.
Basically this means that you can plug a mic into the desk, set the gain correctly and then plug in a normal jack cable to send the signal somewhere - eg: an input on your soundcard. This can be very useful if your desk does not have groups but you have a multiple input soundcard.
Like wise you can utilize the Return by plugging a normal jack calbe half-way into the Insert Point (so that it goes in, but not all the way - you'll know when you do it) - this allows you to skip the gain stage (useful for getting the shortest possible signal path when using a seperate Pre-Amp.)
Insert points are best utilised when hooked up to a patch-bay using Insert Patch Chords - this allows you to have two seperate connections on your patch-bay for the SEND and RETURN signals which saves you faffing about.
night.
jues.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 30, 2003 10:48 pm Ya, that is an odd deal from Tascam. A digital mixer in conjunction with an Alesis HD24 has about about a grand of duplicated effort, i.e. the A/D converters. Twenty four of those are a grand almost any way you look at it.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Jan 31, 2003 02:38 am sory walt. that was a mistake on my part, it wasnt the alesis hd24. it was the tascam mx2424 i got mixed up.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Jan 31, 2003 02:42 am hey guys just another question. so if we are into pc recordings technically speaking we dont even need a mixer at all right? just one of those presonus preamp rack things that give you some preamps and we can do all the mixing on computer?
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Jan 31, 2003 04:47 am Well, the Presonus combined with a high quality Soundcard - yes.
However, you will probably end up needing a Control Surface for better control over the mix - mixing with the mouse is never fun.
Jan 31, 2003 06:03 am you right stupe, i got by with just an M-Audio Audio Buddy preamp running straight into my Delta44 soundcard for the longest time. but now that i have a mixer it's opened up many doors for me.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 31, 2003 07:08 am Gotta agree on both counts. I like a mixer for the control surface, especially if I am using effects, compresors, etc, but I have done recordings with just pre-amps and done very well!
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jan 31, 2003 12:08 pm I was under the impression that if I buy a digital mixer that plays with DAWs I'd be able to do all my mixing on the digital mixer, and it would do the same thing in the software, thus eliminating the need to mix with my mouse, which I hate.
Jan 31, 2003 12:42 pm I think in many cases that is true Loki. So long as the mixer provides the ability to use it as a control surface and the DAW supports whatever "language" the mixer uses to communicate.
Jan 31, 2003 01:43 pm most of those control surfaces boast their compatibiliy. It wouldn't be hard to find the right one.
Jan 31, 2003 01:45 pm I have a CM Labs Motor Mix which I think is great. It's nice and small and will handle an unlimited number of tracks. I highly recommend some sort of control surface for DAW studios. Using the mouse takes a lot of the control away and tends to make fader moves far less smooth and the like.
Jan 31, 2003 01:50 pm Well, that is what automation is far...hard to get smoother than automated.
Jan 31, 2003 02:08 pm Very true, but it's still nice to be able to make moves with a tactile work surface. I guess it's a personal preference thing. But then my personal preferences seem to often be rather unpopular in these parts!
Jan 31, 2003 02:13 pm Oh, ya, you're the ProTools guy...
We don't much like your kind 'round these here parts, partner. :-) hehehe
Jan 31, 2003 02:20 pm Can't we all just get along? You guys are stuck with me now whether you like it or not!
Jan 31, 2003 02:36 pm LOL, good, variety is the spice of life, right? :-)
Jan 31, 2003 02:51 pm I heard 'dat! Plus, there needs to be someone around here who's a Pro[insert derogotory word ryming with Tools here] user. We want this to be a well-rounded community, don't we? Consider me the local affirmative-action member. ;)
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jan 31, 2003 03:02 pm hey blueninjastar... we ain't stuck with ya, I can delete every one fo your posts if I want to ;) hehe, just messign with you... well i mean i could do that but I'm not going to. Anyway, I agree with you, I like working hands on so I am looking to start saving for a control surface.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 01, 2003 12:33 am Stay away from the Tascam 428. Ickey control surface at least with Cubase VST. Maybe SX is better don't know, but on VST it is always getting lost and there we are rebooting, reseting links....Yuch!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 02, 2003 07:51 pm Tascam has suppposedly written all new drivers' fro the 428 and the 228. EZ Buss also had some issue's, but has corrected them as I understand it. If you want dedicated control for the DAW, look to someone like JL Cooper or the like's. I used their stuff before and it was flawless. I have seen an add for a new control surface for Sonar and other's, but the name leave's me right now. When I find it I will post it.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 03, 2003 03:23 am I have the updated drivers and they did make a difference (positive) with the A to D's. I did not try the control surface with the new drivers per past experience. I will give it a shot here someday and let you know if it is better.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 03, 2003 05:59 pm I didn't know you had a 428 Walt!
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Feb 04, 2003 12:17 am I think I am embarrased about it actually. I did pretty good on most of my equipment as far as asking researching and buying "right" the first time, but not so good on audio interfaces to the computer. When I first started I was all in my head about using a laptop, so I picked up the 428. I soon found that I could not keep up on live recording sessions with all of the software adjustments and laptop / Stienburg ideosyncricies. Now I use it for just it's D/A conversion for mix play back. Works fine for that. The other interface I played with was a Core 2 that I got on fire sale. Gave it to a friend. Lexicon made a smart move going back to their "Core" compentancy and leaving interface cards alone.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Feb 05, 2003 01:39 am hey guys just a quick question. what are the TDIF cable connectors on the back of a digital mixer? what does it stand for and where do you hook it into?
Feb 05, 2003 05:04 am TDIF is an 8-channel standard of digital transfer. Like a S/PDIF with 6 more channels. I believe they are in use in 7.1 mixing environments and stuff like that. I forget what it stands for.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 05, 2003 05:24 pm Tascam Digital InterFace I believe. I could be wrong. It just ring's a bell.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Feb 05, 2003 08:18 pm thanks. so in the digital mixers with the TDIF, you can just hook it up to a digital recorder with a tdif IN. and it will record the tracks as opossed to the analog way where you have to plug in 1/4 cables from your outs into the soundcard analog 1/4 ins?
