condenser mic question
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Posted on Jan 31, 2007 09:10 pm
drdrums70
Member Since: Jan 31, 2007
hey. i'm new to home recording. i just had a quick question. would it be an okay idea to use a pair of small diaphram condenser mics such as Shure KSM137s for recording cymbals overhead? i know the KSM is usually reserved for recording hi-hats and such but my budget is too small to afford a pair of large diaphram condensers and there is a guy i know who is selling a pair of KSMs for pretty cheap. let me know if this would work okay. i'm not going for a super polished recording. just something that doesn't sound like a group of kids recording with a mic in a room.
any help would be appreciated! thanks.
-/t/
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ATChrisMusical PhilanthropistMember
Since: Nov 11, 2004
Jan 31, 2007 11:14 pm Those should work fine, they can handle pretty high SPL. I would use them in an XY pattern or use the Recorderman technique. I think this is 'Recorderman' himself explaining his magic method:
1. sit on the drummer's throne/stool.
2.Hold both drum sticks end-to-end so that you have a measuring device ( aprox. 16"...give or take).
3. place the tip of one end of your new double- length-drums-stick-measuring-device in the center of the snare with the "drum sticks" held vertically.
4. The other end will now(depending on how tall you are) be a little above and in front of your forehead.
5. Place a mic here. I've been aiming it down at the snare as of late...
6. With the tip of the "drum sticks" still in the center of the snare, angle the "stick back and down, so that's it's to the right of your right shoulder ( about a 45 degreee angle)
7. Use amic cable. Measure the distance of the over the snare mic to the center of the kick drum. Check that the "right shoulder" mic is also the same distance.
8. Doulble check the snare distance again.
9. As far as where to face them...experiment. I like the extra snare reinforcement, so as of late I've been facing them both at the snare. facing them at the rack and floor toms also produces good results.
10. one last thing to check. with headphones on, both "OH" mics in your cue mix (only them) .fine tune the placement (i.e. adjust their orientation...usualliy just moving the shoulder one) untill the kick is in the center of your "image"
11. When your done you'll notice that at first glance, this looks very weird and unsymmetrical. Yet it is very symmetrical in it's result. A. Rack toms are higher off the floor than floor toms, so this arrangement actually follows the contour of the toms as they really are. Standard OH micing doesn't take this into account, and as such are usually no more than "cymbal mics". Most of them time you see mixers pulling the OH's down to -10 or more in the mix because of the over abundance of cymbals and badly phased snare/kick/toms in the "OH's". I tend to focus my OH on being a cornerstone of my whole kit sound, and as such, and have spent great pains into making the snare/kick/tom elements speak as well as possible. I guess you could say I'm a "drum bigot". It's just that if you "ignore" the cymbals you actually are going to hear them anyway...like the hat, there just so damn loud.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Feb 01, 2007 08:10 am yeah, I am growing to preferr SDC's over all... they just seem to do high freq more accuratly.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 01, 2007 02:37 pm I'm still using this technique. Please do try it and see if it works for you. I have gotten decent recordings with just 2 OH's (SDC's) and a kick mic. Follow it carefully and I think you will like it as the toms come through pretty nice.
On a side note...
I had a 2 channel tube pre that was not working, finally tore it apart and did some soldering and now it works.
Sooo... I re-routed my OH's (NT5's) through it and dialed everything back to 0. Got my neighbor drummer over and spent a good hour dialing everything in volume wise, removing a lil BOOOOM from the toms and dampening the kick. We did a trial run and without extra EQ, compression or anything they sounded soooooo much better, even usable from the get go!!
Also, I put my Rode K2 about 12 feet back in front of the kick and it adds so much air to the recording that I didn't even have to run a reverb bus for the toms and snare.
I'm glad I took the time as drums are still the hardest part for me. This was a gigantic leap in the right direction!!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 03, 2007 05:24 pm I always use SDC's when doing a full kit mic up. Only ever use LDC's when doing a minimum mic set up on a kit.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 05, 2007 02:10 pm Really Noize, local guy was trying to sell some NT1-A;s for $120 each. I was thinking of trying them as OH to capture toms a bit more. But I have everything close mic'd aside from hats. So I should not bother with LDC's ya think?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Feb 05, 2007 09:50 pm Yep, I have only used LDC's on a fully mic'd kit once as it was the drummers wishes to have it like that. But if you are getting good tom sounds and the like already with the mic set up I would definetly go with the SDC's to get a better grab of the crisper parts of the kit and a better handle on the brass.
But that said, if you think you need to get a better picture of the toms then by all means at that price the LDC's will do a fine job. They are really not bad at all, just not as much shine on the brass as the SDC's have. But the NT1-a is a little brighter then most LDC's so it might be a good trade off really. Help the toms but still get a bit of the shine of the brass.
