Jul 02, 2006 10:07 am "though it is easy as hell for me to do nothing more going forward."
That's the path I would take.
Ethical Dilemma
Posted on Jul 02, 2006 07:07 am
dbmasters
Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002
I am stuck in a kind of funky situation professionally speaking, with personal ties and unsure how to proceed, so I appeal to you, my trusted forum comrades for input.
I have two clients, one is the martial arts gym I train in, I have several web sites I do for the gym, and the owner and I have become friends over the last couple years and have lots of ideas and stuff, and I continue to train there. The other is a couple guys I met at the gym that started a fight gear shop.
The gym started in a small retail space on a long lease, the gym outgrew the facility and moved to a much bigger place, the guys from the gym sub-leased the space for the store they started. The guys with the store got all their contacts from the gym, fighters to endorse, promoters of fight events where they have booths set up...everything (one even got his wife from the gym, long story).
Now, the fight gear shop was run stupidly, ran out of money and bailed out on the lease. June 30th they said they were gone, July 1st owing rent, plus a lot of sales commissions to the gym...ripped off the gym owner, and my friend, out of a lot of money (in the area of a couple thousand dollars) plus bailed with over 6 months left on the lease.
Now, this is where it get funky(er)...the fight shop owners want to keep their online catalog going and keep going to events to have booths...and the gym owner (and a couple of us trainees) know that run properly a fight gear shop in our area could be a gold mine as there is no competition and mixed martial arts is really growing in popularity in the area with training places popping up all over...Militech even has a camp here. So, the gym owner, since he is stuck with the lease himself for longer than the 6 month debunking. wants to keep a shop going. In doing that wants to eliminate competition (logical) and therefore appeals to me, as their web guy to shut down their site.
My issue is that the fight shop guys own their own web space, I built them a site which they own, so it is unethical for me to maliciously wreck it, though it is easy as hell for me to do nothing more going forward.
On one hand, I feel loyalty to my gym, he has done great things for me and my whole family from teaching my kids good skills to just getting us all in shape and teaching us something to have fun with at home (I love "sparring" with my kids), plus he has become my friend...the fight shop guys I consider(ed) friends as well, they did nothing directly to me, my family or business, but they acted totally and completely unethically in their dealings with the gym owner and robbed him of money...plus want to keep selling at events the gynm owner got him hooked up with in the first place.
A war is going to start, the gym owner is getting them blackballed from events, which I have no doubt he can do...
So, in a very few days I am going to be totally thrust in the middle of this.
I can't ethically pull down the fight gear shop site can I?
And for the record, the gym owner totally knows even asking me to do that is wrong, and he understands I have ethics of my own to deal with, so he isn't going to hold it against, but, he is pissed off and has to ask for the good of his future shop, which I understand...and, that shop he creates I will undoubtedly be involved with to some extent.
::sigh::
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Jul 02, 2006 10:07 am "though it is easy as hell for me to do nothing more going forward."
That's the path I would take.
Jul 02, 2006 11:44 am Ok,I'll chuck this in-Firstly the gym owner has been paid to train you maybe with some deals with the setting up of web sites too,your kids have learnt from you with encouragement.The guys from the shop still want to sell kit without the overheads and used the gym owners contacts/goodwill.Now I think that the gym owner should gain control of the situation and get together with the shop guys and get them selling stuff on a commission basis.Then have the shop as a stockroom with a trade counter maybe run by you to keep things straight or ban them from the showcases.Get them all sorting it out between them and you could gain all round with a bit of luck.
Jul 02, 2006 11:57 am I'm just a kid, but i try not to get involved in business unless it is directly my business. Ethics wise, yes you should do something about it, but at the moment its more of a business issue than an ethical one. Getting in the middle of it just might roll u up in a snow ball.
Jul 02, 2006 12:04 pm Quote:
My issue is that the fight shop guys own their own web space, I built them a site which they own, so it is unethical for me to maliciously wreck it, though it is easy as hell for me to do nothing more going forward.
If I understand it it's also illegal for you to mess witht the site since they own it.
Jul 02, 2006 12:04 pm On the other hand.... they don't own the code...
Jul 02, 2006 12:08 pm First, yes, initially I paid the gym owner to train me and my family (all four of us take lessons directly from him)...that said, I get substantially better deals and private lessons and much more from him as benefit for some of these side projects we began working on, so it has evolved into more of a partnership then the teacher/student relationship it was.
The gym owner has tried everything with the shop guys to come to some sort of arrangement and has failed...they have no interest.
It's also coming to light that one of the two shop guys is actually the one screwing everybody...this story is getting juicier and juicer...
That said, the conclusion I have come to that will allow me to sleep at night is that it would be wrong and unethical of me to shut the shop site down out of spite...that being said, it would be totally ethical of me to continue the partnership with my trainer and beat them at their own game, open that retail shop back up as a new fight shop and do it right...
The better action is always taking the high road I suppose...
It's just such an emotion-charged situation...
Thanks for your input.
Jul 02, 2006 12:10 pm Quote:
On the other hand.... they don't own the code...
There is the fuzzy gray line...on many contract jobs the code you right for the client IS their code, not mine...that said, their site is just my content management tool, open source tool...
Jul 02, 2006 05:39 pm wow, interesting stuff....here's my "if i were in your shoes" answer fwiw...i tend to choose the path of least resistance, and the most simplicity....i'd ride out the shop owner's 'concract' with their site, and leave it alone and just not let them renew, end your services for reasons they should know....**** happens, and perhaps they were desperate, but that was low down (isn't part of martial arts about good ethics?) and i'd distance myself from 'em until the dust settles...
as for the gym owner...i gotta say 6+ months is very fast to get a NEW shop up and runnin', i'm thinking this is more of an impulse decision (he's freakin' out cuz he's gotta pay for it), and they arn't usually the best....
i'd run some 'extra feature and events' and use it as a tempory extention arm of the gym....hold some kinda event every few weeks, bring the community together for anything related to the gym (get creative here, hold a 'health and wellness' night, get into yoga...etc.) perhaps, sell a few things...bla bla bla...
6 months is rushing it.....after the lease is up, i'd ditch the place and keep on moving forward.
Jul 02, 2006 06:22 pm Ya WYD, I am thinking much like you are...and the last thing I wanna do is get into anything ugly like this with a bunch of people that not only will fight, but know how to as well.
The shop owners are a couple of 20 somethings from out of state that moved up here a bit over a year ago. I suspect the same as you, it was a knee-jerk decision made in the heat of a business disagreement.
I have no formal contract with them, so in the next couple of days I plan to compose an email disolving out relationship...they'll know who, and of course then call my the gym owners lap-dog...which, if that was true their site (and only line of business) would be gone already.
As it sits, we are trying to figure out a way to start the pro shop up ourselves and have US at the events selling t-shirts, hats and whatnot to drunk people that want "cool fight stuff"...
The shop guys screwed it up themselves, one guy well more than the other...there is also a lot of rumors of the leech starting to live the very expensive "high life" as well...which would explain money disappearing...they screwed it up, as I see it from all my investigating, the guy taking it in the *** is my instructor (the gym owner), he is getting screwed and that just isn't right. Ya don't tell somebody one day your business is over and you are breaking the lease when the rent was due the next day...
I do like your "events" idea, we have talked about that, become local reps for national kids and womans safety education orgs and things like that to help the community and the business.
Thanks WYD, good input, I appreciate it.
Jul 03, 2006 02:20 am Quite frankly I am supprised that the gym owners want the web site shut down. Were I they, I would want the owners of the pro shop to have as much money as possible so the legal system would have some chattel to seize when my lawsuit hit! I am with you on kicking the pro shop owners to the curb in a hurry. Bad business has a tendency to spread, and you don't need the affiliation. Spite and resentment are two very poor motivators. Nothing good usualy comes of these. Being shrewed involves wisdom. Explore the situation without the emotion. View it as if you had no idea of who the players are. Although the destruction of the web site would be a momentary feel good, it will only serve to make others see you as emotional and untrustworthy. Help your friends by building a new web site for any potential new owners of a pro-shop as a perk to entice new business. Change your focus to being part of a solution for your friends.
Jul 03, 2006 06:16 am Well, in all fairness, the gym owner is running of 100% emotion at the thought of getting stabbed in the back by someone he trained and in the last-minute, unethical way they did business, I don't blame him for being bitter and angry. That said, he has since kinda mellowed out.
My personal focus has shifted to "OK, how do I capitalize on the market space now opened up"...I think the gym owner's focus has too.
Thanks for your input Walt, always appreciate wise words from the old man ;-)
Jul 03, 2006 10:13 am There you go!, my wise young ;) friend! Although bitter-sweet, you have been given a gift in this transition. You have the knowledge of a proven
profitiable business venture. So go get-em! Make yourself some money. The desert in this feast (although I caution you not to dwell on it) is that your competition will falter and disipate. They have proven that as well.
Jul 03, 2006 10:15 am Exactly, I don't need to sabatage their business to make ours grow, Karma will take care of that for me I am confident.
Maybe I can get out of this wacky web-career of mine yet...
Jul 03, 2006 10:28 am Sorry to say 'it' is everywhere. I have seven dream accounts.... and then there is the one nightmare. Long story, not worth my time to reiderate.
Jul 03, 2006 10:48 pm Came to this one late, but I'll add to the other insightful ideas:
Your new business dealings will have more respect for you if you hold to business ethics now. If you cheapened yourself by sabatoging the other site, then it'll be in the air that you may do it again, to someone else (maybe them) in the future for some reason.
I believe trust is paramount here.
Even though beat'um and cheat'um may deserve bad treatment, like you said, they'll get theirs. They're tactics certainly won't pan out to any competition in the future.
I'd just wash my hands of them, citing business ethics issues, and site my sights on better things.
( i know, you already are thinking this way, but I figured I'd add my .02$us )
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