Drum Mic's
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Posted on Nov 30, 2005 10:13 am
StinkyRyan
I can't spell.
Member Since: Nov 10, 2005
I've been playing around a lot with my drum recording techniques by charging local bands a taco bell dinner every day we spend recording. It's great, I get experience, plus taco bell, which in my opinion is amazing. Any ways a idea I read somewhere online suggested I put two over head mic's right behind the drummer litteraly right beside each other facing different directions. one towards the cymbols on the left while the other towards the right.
Anybody else try this? I kind of like the sound it gives. I'm using the two condensor mic's included in the CAD seven piece drum mic kit. I'm also using my Audix CX-112 as an ambient mic about six feet in front of the set about six feet high pointed diagonally at the drummer. Haven't found much about the placement of such a mic or how to use it.
Any ideas, suggestions, or comments on these ideas would be appreciated. I'm still new to doing this all so I have very little reference to compare new ideas.
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Nov 30, 2005 11:00 am Drum Micing - theres a book.
The technic of putting the mics right next to each other is called "coincident pair" or X-Y configuration.
The point is to put the capsules as close together as possible to avoid phase issues (so the capsules nearly touching angles 90 degress to on another).
I looked at the CAD drum mic kit. Maybe if you give us some more information about what you are doing so far, we could help you dial it in.
My first suggestion is give up on the ambient mic.
That's going to be nothing but tone thinning phase problems and you probably don't have an acoustically enginner space worth recording anyway.
My second suggestion is to absorb, trap, and diffuse as much of the room around the kit as possible.
Using a decent reverb plug instead will give your tracks much more punch AND space.
Nov 30, 2005 11:28 am Right now my whole drum recording pattern usually follows placing the two over heads as mentioned above, using a mic on the snare facing the drummer themself, mic's on the tom's facing away from the cymbols. The mic's used for all of above are in the CAD seven drum mic kit. I then use an Audix D6 for recording the bass drum, I put it in the kick itself so that the back of the mic is about 1" in. I face it towards the beater from the right so it's diagonally left facing it but not directly on it just slightly off (I read that some where) Then I was trying the ambient mic, as mention above.
I want to try the taping a quarter to the back of the kick drums head, but I haven't yet. We use a double kick pedal (iron cobra) should I tape two quarters one for each beater? I have also been tempted to use two mic's on the snare, with one underneath, I have a sienheisser dynamic, not sure the specifics, and an extra tom mic from my CAD kit. I'm not sure which one to use. I do know I'd have to reverse the phase on the one underneath. I got that far.
Dec 01, 2005 09:25 am No one else?
O.K. I'll give it a stab.
First things first.Get some new heads if yours are showing any real wear and/or tune that kit up.(sorry if you've already done this, I am not really sure where you are at). Get yourself some pitch paired sticks (yes it matters, it is most evident striking a cymbal bell).
Bass Drum:
What works best for me is inside the shell straight on directly opposed to the contact point of the beater about 2" away from the beater side head.
You are correct that many sources sound better (more mellow) when miced at an angle. Micing a vocalist at a slightly downward angle to tame excessive syballance or micing a guitar cabinet with the capsule parallel to the cone (to give you a rounder sound) come to mind.
For bass drum you want all that attack, particularly since you are more than likely to be eq'ing a notch out of it later on in the mix to make the bass guitar gel with it.
I would be weary of the quarters trick. A double bass drum pedal tells me you like fast bass drums. Adding that much mass to the head will give it a lot more intertia, meaning the head will have a much farther excursion and likely pork your drummers timing all up unless you tighten your bass drum way up, but then it won't sound like a bass drum. But by all means experiment. If it is magic let me know, I'll try it too.
IMO in the pocket groove is SO much more important than larger than life drum sound.
Snare:
1 mic on top at a horizontal angle facing drumer pointing directly away from your hats. Vertical angle depends on the polar resonse pattern of you mic. If is cardoid, point the cable at the hats, if its hypercaroid angle the mic so it puts the hats in the 60 degree off axis dead zone of the polar response pattern.
No mic on bottom, picks up too much beater noise and just because you flip the phase doesn't mean the phase will be perfect. If you are not getting enough strainer move the mic out half an inch.
Overheads:
If you want to use X-Y configuration, try putting them on booms facing straight down towards your kit about 2-3 feet above your cymbals.
Personally I have had more luck using a spaced pair technique (gives you more stereo separation)on the OHs, About 4 feet apart, pointed straight down oriented about 1/3-1/2 the way between the cymbals and the drummer about 1-2 feet above the cymbals.
Toms:
I usually point the tom mics at the drummers angled down to the center of the head with the capsule at or just inside the rim.
Processing:
A hardware compressor post preamp/pre A/D with limiting is extremely helpful on the kick and snare tracks.
EQ on the OHs, select a narrow Q, boost 10 dB and sweep back and forth until you find the mud, then high pass at that point (take the rumble out).
It really is helpful to look at the polar response of your mics and use the dead zones to your advantage.
I would try monitoring with and without the tom mics. More mics doen't mean better sound. You should be rockin' with a kick, snare and the overheads (in some configuration). Bring up the tom mics slowly for flavor.
I would also recommend getting a buddy to help you "tune" your mic positions, one drum at a time with a steady rhythm and even dynamic.
I hope this gets you a little farther. I am by far no expert in drum micing. Every room, kit, player and mic, yadda, yadda.
Good Luck
Dec 01, 2005 09:43 am Miking drums is not my strongest skill, haven't done it in a LONG time (since discovering Velocity and Battery 2), but, as a point-counterpoint to netstat, I especially like the quarter trick on double bass because it adds a lot of separation to the sound...gives a sharp edge to it...
Dec 01, 2005 10:21 am "Miking drums is not my strongest skill, haven't done it in a LONG time (since discovering Velocity and Battery 2), but, as a point-counterpoint to netstat, I especially like the quarter trick on double bass because it adds a lot of separation to the sound...gives a sharp edge to it..."
Really? I've never heard of it. Is it something specifically for double bass pedals on a single drum or does it work equally as well on single pedal/drum?
You just tape it on with 1 piece of duct tape?
Dec 01, 2005 10:25 am Well, as I read into the thread deeper, I got the jist he was talking about a double pedal on a single head...it does not work QUITE as well in that situation (but still does better IMHO), but still does, typically I have used it on double kick drums each with it's own pedal...
I just like it cuz of the "crack" it adds to the strike, giving it more definition to separate it from the other kick. It's harder with one drum, cuz one pedal or two, it's still hitting the same head sounding just the same...
Again, I have to say I am no drum guru by any stretch of the imagination, so, take my opinion as such. Though I am always surprised how many people have never heard of the quarter trick on doubles, I've had it work amazingly well sometimes...but I will admit, it depends greatly on the drummer and the drum as well.
Dec 01, 2005 12:39 pm yah...netstat, that whole quarter thing is a trick thats been around for a while, ive used many times to great effect...give it a shot sometime...none of the drummers have ever seemed to notice a difference...
but to make sure you guys have it right...the quarter gets taped INSIDE the beater head...not outside...youll burn a hole right through the head...
Dec 01, 2005 01:42 pm I do the tom's just like you said. I keep the level as low as possible during the whole beginning. Although I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying about the bass drum netstat. You face the mic straight at the contact point of the beater? And about 2" away from the head the beater hits? Like all the way into the drum? As for the quarter, like netstat asked, do you just one strip of duct tape it on?
The overheads, you place then four feet apart from each other but where. I read on article to create an imaginary like through the snare and kick. So if you're looking striaght at the set it's a diagonal line. And then from there treat that as splitting it in half and to point a mic on the center of each side.
I bought some more time for our space so I'll have a lot more time to experiment. We will be doing the final recording in a church room, which was acoustically engineered. I know some people so I have all the free time in the world there after christmas since the sound is a little off in there now due to christmas trees everywhere. So I'll definately be experimenting in my basement, which isn't too bad sounding, no echos, doesn't sound like a box, big room decent sound basically. So if anybody has any ideas I'll try anything.
Dec 01, 2005 02:58 pm Quote:
You face the mic straight at the contact point of the beater? And about 2" away from the head the beater hits? Like all the way into the drum?
Yep just like that. Shove 'er on up in there.
The diagonal line idea will give you more even stereo placement. It really depends on the use or final level of your tom mics and the amount of reflection/bleed.
This is a great site:
www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
Go to Drums and Percussion, Mic placement tab, third illustration down.
